Minimum safe speed for Lorry to join a free flowing motorway
Discussion
Retroman said:
Forget lorries not having enough power to get onto motorways at a safe speed.
Anyone who's ever owned or drove a Peugeot / Saxo / AX with either 1.4 or 1.5 diesel engine with passengers in the car will be able to relate as well.
0-60mph was something like 17 seconds when new and with no passengers.
Scared the bejesus out of me when I had a hire one recently, 1.sommitoranother and it was petrol. Forget the type, just a euro shopping cart. No poke what so ever.Anyone who's ever owned or drove a Peugeot / Saxo / AX with either 1.4 or 1.5 diesel engine with passengers in the car will be able to relate as well.
0-60mph was something like 17 seconds when new and with no passengers.
Merc 450 said:
Horse boxes have to be driven with extreme care no harsh acceleration or sudden braking as a half ton horse on 4 stick like legs loses balance and breaks very easily
Yes they are a live load in both senses of the word and yes the drivers need to be careful, but why would the drivers need to be any more careful that those carrying any other large animal, cattle for instance? They don't need to be driven slowly, they need to be driven smoothly. KevinCamaroSS said:
Forget horse boxes, when I was in the TA I drove a Bedford MK, weight between 9 - 12 tonnes dependent on role (overweight, but OK because army). Engine was 5.4 litre non-turbo diesel with 98 bhp. Maxed out not far north of 40 mph.
Yep horrible things 40 flat and with them horrible off road tyresWilly Nilly said:
Yes they are a live load in both senses of the word and yes the drivers need to be careful, but why would the drivers need to be any more careful that those carrying any other large animal, cattle for instance? They don't need to be driven slowly, they need to be driven smoothly.
Cattle are tightly packed so have little room to move changing the balance of the truck, a single horse tends to move a lot when nervous or thrown about.Fortunately I only carry parts of cows ( heads feet and stomachs) and they don't move a lot
Merc 450 said:
Willy Nilly said:
Yes they are a live load in both senses of the word and yes the drivers need to be careful, but why would the drivers need to be any more careful that those carrying any other large animal, cattle for instance? They don't need to be driven slowly, they need to be driven smoothly.
Cattle are tightly packed so have little room to move changing the balance of the truck, a single horse tends to move a lot when nervous or thrown about.Fortunately I only carry parts of cows ( heads feet and stomachs) and they don't move a lot
Girlfriend has horses and horsebox (although doesn't hold anyone up with it) here's how I see it from my experience
1. As said even if they're relatively shiny on top they're usually built on an ancient chassis with a trundling, gutless engine
2. With a horse on board it'll likely have water tanks full and plenty of gear and thus right on the weight limit, if not over with two horses if enough care hasn't been heeded to loading
3. There are plenty of stuck up cows in the equestrian arena but most of them are sensible enough. If they're driving annoyingly carefully it's because it's not hard for the horse to slip over or if the horse is a t
t simply for it to go fking ballistic because of the movement and injure itself. Even if it's unlikely to permanently damage the horse, a pulled ligament or relatively minor injury means several months of spending money, waking up early, shovelling horse poo and generally risking getting kicked in the head with no chance of actually enjoying the experience of horse ownership by riding the evil thing. It's not like a race car with a knackered wheel bearing where you shove it in the garage until you can be arsed to fix it.
I'm sure someone will say 'if it's a tt in the back of a horse box then don't put it in the back of a horse box' but trust me they're unlikely to be relishing the prospect of driving for hours with the constant fear of the thing kicking off in the back so there's usually a pretty good reason for it being in there.
1. As said even if they're relatively shiny on top they're usually built on an ancient chassis with a trundling, gutless engine
2. With a horse on board it'll likely have water tanks full and plenty of gear and thus right on the weight limit, if not over with two horses if enough care hasn't been heeded to loading
3. There are plenty of stuck up cows in the equestrian arena but most of them are sensible enough. If they're driving annoyingly carefully it's because it's not hard for the horse to slip over or if the horse is a t
t simply for it to go fking ballistic because of the movement and injure itself. Even if it's unlikely to permanently damage the horse, a pulled ligament or relatively minor injury means several months of spending money, waking up early, shovelling horse poo and generally risking getting kicked in the head with no chance of actually enjoying the experience of horse ownership by riding the evil thing. It's not like a race car with a knackered wheel bearing where you shove it in the garage until you can be arsed to fix it.I'm sure someone will say 'if it's a t
t in the back of a horse box then don't put it in the back of a horse box' but trust me they're unlikely to be relishing the prospect of driving for hours with the constant fear of the thing kicking off in the back so there's usually a pretty good reason for it being in there.Just to add to the above (I don't have horses but have been involved with equestrian stuff for a while). Cattle and sheep which the horses have been compared to earlier, are much hardier animals than horses. Horses are heavy, tall, have stick like legs which break very easily, and have ligaments and tendons which are quite vulnerable to injury. Sheep and cows have much lower centres of gravity and are wider so are less likely to fall over anyway but even when they fall, they seem to tend not to injure themselves the way horses do. Besides, if a cow is lame, they will still be able to produce milk but you can't ride a lame horse. Then you have the animals' behaviours to take into account. It isn't that easy to spook a cow or sheep which are with lots of others of their kind. Horses, on the other hand, are piss easy to scare, and when they're spooked or scared, they do stupid things. Very stupid thing. Very, very, very, VERY stupid things, which often end up injuring the animal itself, it's neighbours or the owner/groom/family. Of course, some are worse than others, and some are very calm. When horses are injured, they get expensive, very seriously expensive.
Add to that the fact that the vast majority of cattle and sheep are just that, cattle and sheep which will one day be eaten and are being kept purely as a commodity and being part of a working farm, whereas the vast majority of horses are treated as pets, no different to the cats and dogs most people have. Therefore the bond between owner and animal, and hence the wish to protect the animal, is vastly different to that of someone driving a load of cows to the market with the express intention that they'll become steak and burgers.
Anyway, this doesn't excuse idiotic and inconsiderate driving by anyone with a horsebox, but at the same time, please do bear in mind that they might be feeling a bit pissed off that nobody makes any allowances for them and people frequently attempt dangerous manoeuvres, at least dangerous for the horse if not both driver and horse, hence them driving very defensively, cf some of the cyclists, to protect their much loved pet.
PS Someone mentioned harnesses to stop them falling over. These do exist but the chest of a horse is quite delicate and can be damaged relatively easily so they can't do anything more than provide a bit of additional help to stop them falling over but they're nowhere near 100% effective.
Edit for a spelling error which escaped my proofreading.
Add to that the fact that the vast majority of cattle and sheep are just that, cattle and sheep which will one day be eaten and are being kept purely as a commodity and being part of a working farm, whereas the vast majority of horses are treated as pets, no different to the cats and dogs most people have. Therefore the bond between owner and animal, and hence the wish to protect the animal, is vastly different to that of someone driving a load of cows to the market with the express intention that they'll become steak and burgers.
Anyway, this doesn't excuse idiotic and inconsiderate driving by anyone with a horsebox, but at the same time, please do bear in mind that they might be feeling a bit pissed off that nobody makes any allowances for them and people frequently attempt dangerous manoeuvres, at least dangerous for the horse if not both driver and horse, hence them driving very defensively, cf some of the cyclists, to protect their much loved pet.
PS Someone mentioned harnesses to stop them falling over. These do exist but the chest of a horse is quite delicate and can be damaged relatively easily so they can't do anything more than provide a bit of additional help to stop them falling over but they're nowhere near 100% effective.
Edit for a spelling error which escaped my proofreading.
Edited by QuickQuack on Monday 4th July 15:43
QuickQuack said:
Add to that the fact that the vast majority of cattle and sheep are just that, cattle and sheep which will one day be eaten and are being kept purely as a commodity and being part of a working farm, whereas the vast majority of horses are treated as pets, no different to the cats and dogs most people have. Therefore the bond between owner and animal, and hence the wish to protect the animal, is vastly different to that of someone driving a load of cows to the market with the express intention that they'll become steak and burgers.
Anyway, this doesn't excuse idiotic and inconsiderate driving by anyone with a horsebox, but at the same time, please do bear in mind that they might be feeling a bit pissed off that nobody makes any allowances for them and people frequently attempt dangerous manoeuvres, at least dangerous for the horse if not both driver and horse, hence them driving very defensively, cf some of the cyclists, to protect their much loved pet.
Edit for a spelling error which escaped my proofreading.
In plenty of cases the cows and sheep you see in a field are the result of several generations of breeding from the same family on the same farm. Yes they are a commodity, but they also in a lot of cases the owners lifes work and at the very least what makes their living (or not...). Besides, farm animals are subjected to far more welfare checks than horses, even though they are normally owned by proffesionals who do actually know what they are doing, rather than reading the latest emotional bullsAnyway, this doesn't excuse idiotic and inconsiderate driving by anyone with a horsebox, but at the same time, please do bear in mind that they might be feeling a bit pissed off that nobody makes any allowances for them and people frequently attempt dangerous manoeuvres, at least dangerous for the horse if not both driver and horse, hence them driving very defensively, cf some of the cyclists, to protect their much loved pet.
Edit for a spelling error which escaped my proofreading.
Edited by QuickQuack on Monday 4th July 15:43
t from H&H. If you were haulling tellys and got to Currys and there were damaged tellys on your lorry, you wouldn't be in the telly hauling business for long. Besides, if you unload a load of livestock at market or the slaughter house and they were damaged, you would likely be in a lot of trouble. Horses may well be pets, but in my experience, they are owned by well meaning people with little or no large animal experience. They simply do need need treating like the Queens best bone china.
Willy Nilly said:
Horses may well be pets, but in my experience, they are owned by well meaning people with little or no large animal experience. They simply do need need treating like the Queens best bone china.
Should the first instance of the word need be replaced by NOT in this post?Willy Nilly said:
Horses may well be pets, but in my experience, they are owned by well meaning people with little or no large animal experience. They simply do need need treating like the Queens best bone china.
Must be the circles you mix in! All the horse people I know have a vast amount of experience in looking after them, often over two or three generations.Certainly as they get past 14 or 15 years old it can be one spook and fall away from the glue factory as the prospective mother in law often jokes. Indeed the girlfriend has been shovelling poo and spending money on her top horse for the last year and a half after two pretty minor incidents.
Yes I'm sure there are plenty of horses walking around lame with underlying issues, and some are happy enough to amble about in a field and survive hobbling around in varying amounts of pain, but some go bonkers and injure themselves more seriously and none of them can be used for competition, particularly jumping.
Generally speaking, if a horse is in a horsebox on a motorway then it's either on its way to the vet or on its way to a competition, so it might give you an idea of why they are treated so delicately!
Going back to the OP, surely it isn't that hard for the users of a free flowing motorway to use a bit of forward observation and to pull out into lane 2/3 on approaching a joining slip-road? I do it as a matter of course, its nearly always easier for me to move from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3 if necessary, to make space for a joining vehicle as I am already at motorway speed.
longshot said:
I understand the point of a minimum speed but what if a lorry gets cut up (very common nowadays I would think) at the bottom of the slip road and has to slam on the brakes.
Entering then would cause a lot of disruption but if not as if he can back up and have another go.
I use the M1 during peak times once a week and one junction in particular is always ground to a halt by the sheer volume of traffic pouring on to the motorway.
The though crossed my mind that a forth lane at junctions for about half a mile would make things a lot easier and would help with this too.
What doesn't help is people who try jump off the slip road onto the carriage way at the earliest opportunity, rather than using the length of the slip.Entering then would cause a lot of disruption but if not as if he can back up and have another go.
I use the M1 during peak times once a week and one junction in particular is always ground to a halt by the sheer volume of traffic pouring on to the motorway.
The though crossed my mind that a forth lane at junctions for about half a mile would make things a lot easier and would help with this too.
Edited by longshot on Friday 1st July 11:06
The Wookie said:
Generally speaking, if a horse is in a horsebox on a motorway then it's either on its way to the vet or on its way to a competition, so it might give you an idea of why they are treated so delicately!
Willy Nilly said:
Motorways are smooth with gentle bends and everyone goes in the same direction, there is abosulty no reason for a horse box to hold the traffic up, just accelorate smoothly and get up to speed. Horses get transported in aircraft, do the ruddy faced horse owners stand in the cockpit telling the pilot to slow down?
I thought we were talking about accelerating up slip roads? I agree they shouldn't, but anywhere with bends, traffic lights and junctions you might expect it
The Wookie said:
Girlfriend has horses and horsebox (although doesn't hold anyone up with it) here's how I see it from my experience
1. As said even if they're relatively shiny on top they're usually built on an ancient chassis with a trundling, gutless engine
2. With a horse on board it'll likely have water tanks full and plenty of gear and thus right on the weight limit, if not over with two horses if enough care hasn't been heeded to loading
3. There are plenty of stuck up cows in the equestrian arena but most of them are sensible enough. If they're driving annoyingly carefully it's because it's not hard for the horse to slip over or if the horse is a tt simply for it to go fking ballistic because of the movement and injure itself. Even if it's unlikely to permanently damage the horse, a pulled ligament or relatively minor injury means several months of spending money, waking up early, shovelling horse poo and generally risking getting kicked in the head with no chance of actually enjoying the experience of horse ownership by riding the evil thing. It's not like a race car with a knackered wheel bearing where you shove it in the garage until you can be arsed to fix it.
I'm sure someone will say 'if it's a tt in the back of a horse box then don't put it in the back of a horse box' but trust me they're unlikely to be relishing the prospect of driving for hours with the constant fear of the thing kicking off in the back so there's usually a pretty good reason for it being in there.
Having had another one do them same and the swing 180 degrees from the access road to the slip road, think they should use another route. Doubt they have permission to use the services acces and clearly it's not suitable.1. As said even if they're relatively shiny on top they're usually built on an ancient chassis with a trundling, gutless engine
2. With a horse on board it'll likely have water tanks full and plenty of gear and thus right on the weight limit, if not over with two horses if enough care hasn't been heeded to loading
3. There are plenty of stuck up cows in the equestrian arena but most of them are sensible enough. If they're driving annoyingly carefully it's because it's not hard for the horse to slip over or if the horse is a t
t simply for it to go fking ballistic because of the movement and injure itself. Even if it's unlikely to permanently damage the horse, a pulled ligament or relatively minor injury means several months of spending money, waking up early, shovelling horse poo and generally risking getting kicked in the head with no chance of actually enjoying the experience of horse ownership by riding the evil thing. It's not like a race car with a knackered wheel bearing where you shove it in the garage until you can be arsed to fix it.I'm sure someone will say 'if it's a t
t in the back of a horse box then don't put it in the back of a horse box' but trust me they're unlikely to be relishing the prospect of driving for hours with the constant fear of the thing kicking off in the back so there's usually a pretty good reason for it being in there.15 mph the one this week and it drove in the middle of the road so if a police car had come it would of been seriously delayed.
boyse7en said:
Going back to the OP, surely it isn't that hard for the users of a free flowing motorway to use a bit of forward observation and to pull out into lane 2/3 on approaching a joining slip-road? I do it as a matter of course, its nearly always easier for me to move from 1 to 2, or 2 to 3 if necessary, to make space for a joining vehicle as I am already at motorway speed.
You think but it's full of 2-3 lane joggers. I mean Friday drive home bmw 3 with a young lad driving passed a police x5 at 70.4545454mph but he was lane 3 for along time nothing lane 2 and police car lane 1. He stayed out for a long time and police didn't bat an eye lid.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff