87 year old who shot wife.
Discussion
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
Unfortunately there are many versions of Dementia, Some people become quiet, timid and scared, , some become paranoid and violent, some know what is happening, others believe they are the only sane one. Unfortunately I have had/have relatives with a number of different ways of presenting. None is preferable over an other varient, but watching someone scared of something thet only they can know about is paticularly painfull for all involved.
In the end the only legal way is to starve someone to death, something that to me seemed a particularly brutal way to go, even though it is the medical method that is most recomended when the ability to eat and drink has failed. To watch someone fade away over a period of weeks seemed cruel, but to watch them suffer for years was no better.
In the end the only legal way is to starve someone to death, something that to me seemed a particularly brutal way to go, even though it is the medical method that is most recomended when the ability to eat and drink has failed. To watch someone fade away over a period of weeks seemed cruel, but to watch them suffer for years was no better.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/04/sir-jac...
Jackie Stewart's wife has it. She needs 24-hour care.
The phrase that got to me was the description of his wife's response: 'worthless determination'. Hauntingly terrible.
Jackie Stewart's wife has it. She needs 24-hour care.
The phrase that got to me was the description of his wife's response: 'worthless determination'. Hauntingly terrible.
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
98elise said:
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
TooMany2cvs said:
98elise said:
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
but that obviously doesn't count as the residential care trumps that
the whole system is f
ked up TooMany2cvs said:
98elise said:
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
WinstonWolf said:
TooMany2cvs said:
98elise said:
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
My MIL is classed as residential, but my FIL got medical. The social worker involved was amazed as she said getting it on medical grounds hardly ever happens.
98elise said:
WinstonWolf said:
TooMany2cvs said:
98elise said:
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
My MIL is classed as residential, but my FIL got medical. The social worker involved was amazed as she said getting it on medical grounds hardly ever happens.
Rude-boy said:
Jasandjules said:
Drawweight said:
I admit to knowing not a lot about dementia but isn't the patient to a large extent unaware of their circumstances and as such there is no 'suffering'
The suffering is all on the nearest and dearest but is that enough reason to end a life?
Not quite. As I understand it, the sufferer has periods where they are aware and they then panic as they don't know what is happening i.e. why they are not in their own home and why there is a stranger there etc... The suffering is all on the nearest and dearest but is that enough reason to end a life?
Also periods where they have what amounts to a flashback to something which also causes panic and distress.
That is my very limited understanding of the awful nature of this condition. I may well be wrong but that is what is happening to my Nan....
i have no direct knowledge but have a colleague here who is a specialist solicitor for the elderly, is highly trained in the topic from a legal POV and has a mother who is 4 years in care with it...
assisted dying is not one issue but at least 3
- the homicide of those who lack capacity ( or are deemed to do so by relatives or the state ) you can see where the Aktions might end up there in providing a last(ing) Solution ...
- the Dual Effect of large doses of analgesia and/or sedation in people who are distressed by pain or other distresing symptoms in end stage disease.
- suicide of competent adults with a life limiting condition
98elise said:
TooMany2cvs said:
red997 said:
No I dont
Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
Tax isn't a "pay-in-take-out" system. Those who can afford pay in to provide for those who can't.Neither myself or my sister require or desire any inheritance
After two lives of paying tax, they are not getting anything back in return for it.
thats the injustice.
If neither you nor your sister require any inheritance, their assets might as well provide for their care when they need it. They can't take it with 'em, right...?
If we have an NHS then is should cover all illnesses, not pick and choose when it wants to rifle through your bank account.
there are fundamentally 3 elements to the charge a care home makes
1. room and board ( and cleaning, laundry )
2. social care - i.e. basic assistance with activities of ddaily living
3. Health care - this is what the 110 GBP /week from the NHS goes towards as well as all the other NHS entitlements ( in residential homes if Nursing input is needed community nursing visit or the resident / patient is re assessed for a Nursing home bed )
TooMany2cvs said:
You seem to be missing the difference between residential care and medical care.
The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
This seems to be an ongoing confusion for many people , not helped by CHC and some of the myths being put about by those who think if you stamp your feet enough someone will get CHC funding. The NHS never, ever pays for residential care. That's paid for by the local authority for those with insufficient assets of their own. No matter what ailments the person may be living with.
the NHS pays 110 gbp / wk towards care hoem fees for those who are 'nursing home' residents , this is in addition to all the NHS services anyone else could expect (apart from routine community nursing input - but the specialist support is still there e.g. tissue viability , specialist mental health input)
Lakeland9 said:
I'm in very much the same situation with my mum,now aged 91. I wish I had the courage to help her end her life,which I know she wants. I can't do it, and it is something I will regret to my own last day. This guy showed great courage and I admire him for it. Which is not to say that he shouldn't be prosecuted but I hope the court is merciful to him.
I dread this happening, my Mum is afraid of very little, but alzheimers scares her rigid and I know that she'll wish to end it also but I too don't believe I have the stones to assist.Good thoughts to you and your Mum LL9
Brutal and messy way to go. Especially with your own father's revolver.
Would she have wanted to go that way? What sort of relationship did they have? Was it a sweethearts or was it a domineering old school male over female? Sorry I wouldn't want to be smothered or shot. Where do you draw the line as well? Rich relative with carehome fee's annoying someone who decides 'she's had enough' even though the target is happy in themselves? Great for others to decide for you...or is it? I've often said shoot me before I get into a carehome. It's called a figure of speech.
There is another way -Morphine but that is wide open to abuse again (Harold Shipman, I bet there's a few of them around still on more minor levels).
As for couldn't shoot himself. No, hence why I ask what sort of relationship was it.
Would she have wanted to go that way? What sort of relationship did they have? Was it a sweethearts or was it a domineering old school male over female? Sorry I wouldn't want to be smothered or shot. Where do you draw the line as well? Rich relative with carehome fee's annoying someone who decides 'she's had enough' even though the target is happy in themselves? Great for others to decide for you...or is it? I've often said shoot me before I get into a carehome. It's called a figure of speech.
There is another way -Morphine but that is wide open to abuse again (Harold Shipman, I bet there's a few of them around still on more minor levels).
As for couldn't shoot himself. No, hence why I ask what sort of relationship was it.
I wrote on the other thread when this first happened. My Dad is 86 and has dementia. My mum was 80 and was his carer ashamed of what he had become and hid the true extent of his condition until she was struggling to cope, telling us every thing was fine.
Seeing your Dad every morning saying he wanted to be left to die was heartbreaking, but once up oblivious to the surroundings where he was or who certain people were.
I got carers in who helped a bit until we got a proper assessments done and then a package where they came in three times a day to dress him medicate him and but him to bed.
My mother found she had cancer and was struggling even more as she was having chemo, living 200 miles away I was going up every weekend and once in the week to help but things came to a head when Dad lashed out and ended up bleeding. He was taken into a care home I had chosen and mum left alone.
She died last week whilst I was away, but reading the diaries I never knew she wrote, the feelings of loneliness, helplessness, sadness, misery and hopelessness she felt was painful to read. Help for people is not easy to get, indeed they become footballs between the NHS and social services deciding who is responsible and all the time the carer is saddled with an unbearable load.
I took the guns Dad had away some months before, had I not and Mum had shot Dad it would not have surprised me.
Had she have done so any fair jury would have read her diaries and if they had an ounce of humanity would have found her innocent. Any CPS who decided to take her to court would be hiding behind a law book.
Taking this man to court will serve no purpose other than to make some money and to placate a few who feel all life no matter how miserable, how intolerable and how pointless is worth others suffering so they can feel some spiritual superiority.
People who pass judgement on cases like these have never had to experience what my mother and thousands of others like her have suffered every day losing their loved ones to this horrible cruel end.
If anything this case should highlight how inadequate help is for people with dementia, how shockingly we treat them and how we should be ashamed of how we allow lone carers to be used instead of proper care.
Seeing your Dad every morning saying he wanted to be left to die was heartbreaking, but once up oblivious to the surroundings where he was or who certain people were.
I got carers in who helped a bit until we got a proper assessments done and then a package where they came in three times a day to dress him medicate him and but him to bed.
My mother found she had cancer and was struggling even more as she was having chemo, living 200 miles away I was going up every weekend and once in the week to help but things came to a head when Dad lashed out and ended up bleeding. He was taken into a care home I had chosen and mum left alone.
She died last week whilst I was away, but reading the diaries I never knew she wrote, the feelings of loneliness, helplessness, sadness, misery and hopelessness she felt was painful to read. Help for people is not easy to get, indeed they become footballs between the NHS and social services deciding who is responsible and all the time the carer is saddled with an unbearable load.
I took the guns Dad had away some months before, had I not and Mum had shot Dad it would not have surprised me.
Had she have done so any fair jury would have read her diaries and if they had an ounce of humanity would have found her innocent. Any CPS who decided to take her to court would be hiding behind a law book.
Taking this man to court will serve no purpose other than to make some money and to placate a few who feel all life no matter how miserable, how intolerable and how pointless is worth others suffering so they can feel some spiritual superiority.
People who pass judgement on cases like these have never had to experience what my mother and thousands of others like her have suffered every day losing their loved ones to this horrible cruel end.
If anything this case should highlight how inadequate help is for people with dementia, how shockingly we treat them and how we should be ashamed of how we allow lone carers to be used instead of proper care.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-3688329...
"Mr King was sentenced to six years for manslaughter, five years for firearm possession and 12 months for possessing ammunition. All three terms will be served concurrently."
"Mr King was sentenced to six years for manslaughter, five years for firearm possession and 12 months for possessing ammunition. All three terms will be served concurrently."
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