Ex being unreasonable about seeing my daughter... !!!
Discussion
Al U said:
As someone who doesn't yet have kids, but is planning to can I ask what may seem a silly question? I have no experience whatsoever in these matters so forgive me.
How is it that she is the one that is being asked to agree to this etc. At what point is it decided that she has the child and you have to make arrangements with her?
Does what I have just asked make sense?
Essentially unless there are extenuating circumstances the child is always considered to be better off with the Mother so the Father has to play 2nd fiddle to her and her demands.How is it that she is the one that is being asked to agree to this etc. At what point is it decided that she has the child and you have to make arrangements with her?
Does what I have just asked make sense?
eybic said:
Essentially unless there are extenuating circumstances the child is always considered to be better off with the Mother so the Father has to play 2nd fiddle to her and her demands.
Surely that is a bit archaic?! Is that actually the law? That's even verging on discrimination surely?S10GTA said:
I don't think the above is true anymore. Things have moved on. Having done a bit of research, it seems a lot of cases go 50/50 now, however parents commitments to work (ie dad working full time) often skew the results.
Ok, fair enough. My Brother's involvement with "the system" was early 00's so maybe things have changed for the better.eybic said:
S10GTA said:
I don't think the above is true anymore. Things have moved on. Having done a bit of research, it seems a lot of cases go 50/50 now, however parents commitments to work (ie dad working full time) often skew the results.
Ok, fair enough. My Brother's involvement with "the system" was early 00's so maybe things have changed for the better.Edited by SpydieNut on Thursday 7th July 17:43
Vaud said:
Parents have few "rights".
The child has rights.
The parents have responsibilities to the child.
Sorry this sounds trite, but it is an important distinction that many parents forget.
No not trite, but parents do have legal rights regarding the right to be informed and the right to be consulted. I couldn't operate on a child (who is not Gillick competent) without the parent being informed unless it was a life threatening emergency, however, this right does not extend to them being able to stop things like medical intervention which is in the best interest of the child. The child has rights.
The parents have responsibilities to the child.
Sorry this sounds trite, but it is an important distinction that many parents forget.
Now I'm sounding a bit trite, but I have had to call the duty judge of the family court in the small hours to proceed with transfusion etc. and the parents had a right to know, but no right to refuse.
I have my kids 2 nights a week (Weds and alternating Fri/Sat's) and we do try and keep it amicable which allows us to swap nights if either of us have plans.
However, my biggest regret is not getting 50/50 access at the time (would have been really hard at the time with work commitments, but probably not impossible), because I do miss them like crazy and it feels like everything gets crammed in to what time we do get together. Also, if I want to make plans for the weekend I have to get "permission" first in case she has something planned and 'forgot' to tell me, as happened last weekend.
Also by default she get's the deciding vote when it comes to Christmas and birthdays too which is really tough so if you can get something in writing for what it's worth.
Good luck!
However, my biggest regret is not getting 50/50 access at the time (would have been really hard at the time with work commitments, but probably not impossible), because I do miss them like crazy and it feels like everything gets crammed in to what time we do get together. Also, if I want to make plans for the weekend I have to get "permission" first in case she has something planned and 'forgot' to tell me, as happened last weekend.
Also by default she get's the deciding vote when it comes to Christmas and birthdays too which is really tough so if you can get something in writing for what it's worth.
Good luck!
Sorry to hear about your situation. I don't know if it would work for you, or if your work is flexible, but the way that me and my sister saw our parents was this way: Monday until a week Wednesday with mum, then go to dads from that Wednesday to the following Monday, so was a two week pattern. We also saw dad on the Wednesday afternoon in between after school until 19:00, so it wasn't long until we saw him again.
Speaking to dad now, this was the best way for him and mum, as it meant that they both dealt with getting us to school, but also saw us over the weekends too. The only reason that it was two thirds with mum and only a third with dad was because dad worked stupidly hard on the 8.5 days he didn't see us to ensure that he could look after us on the third of time he did see us! Still makes me so grateful and proud now!
Hope you get things sorted soon, it's not a nice situation, but it will get better. Good luck.
Speaking to dad now, this was the best way for him and mum, as it meant that they both dealt with getting us to school, but also saw us over the weekends too. The only reason that it was two thirds with mum and only a third with dad was because dad worked stupidly hard on the 8.5 days he didn't see us to ensure that he could look after us on the third of time he did see us! Still makes me so grateful and proud now!
Hope you get things sorted soon, it's not a nice situation, but it will get better. Good luck.
QuickQuack said:
SickFish said:
1. LEGAL CUSTODY & DECISION MAKING.
The mother shall have sole and exclusive custody of the child and all final decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be provided the opportunity to participate in the decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
Do NOT suggest or agree to this. It will remove any of your rights as a father. As long as you're named on the birth certificate, you have parental responsibility in the eyes of the law. Replace this with a paragraph that clearly lays out that you, as the father on the birth certificate, have full and equal parental responsibility as the mother and must be consulted on all significant matters relating to her development and future including but not limited to schooling and health. In an emergency, either parent may make a decision for the best interest of the child without consulting the other parent if it is not practical or possible. Do NOT under any circumstances agree to give up your legal parental responsibility or to anything which might restrict it. Otherwise she can go loopy and decide that she will "home school" your daughter and there's bugger all you can do about it if you're not happy that she's getting a decent education. The mother shall have sole and exclusive custody of the child and all final decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be provided the opportunity to participate in the decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
Seriously, do NOT give up your legal rights as a parent. You will only regret it, especially if she's as manipulative as you say.
The mother and father shall have full and equal decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the mother or father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be consulted and given the opportunity to participate in any decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
SpydieNut said:
thoughts?
it seems reasonable and i wish you all the best.
realistically it boils down to what the ex will allow you. i have realised there's a lot of truth in the phrase - 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'. if she's anything like my ex (who i never thought would turn into this bitter, twisted person and use our daughter as a pawn) then she'll do everything she can to make your life hell.
One of most misquoted phrases ever.it seems reasonable and i wish you all the best.
realistically it boils down to what the ex will allow you. i have realised there's a lot of truth in the phrase - 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'. if she's anything like my ex (who i never thought would turn into this bitter, twisted person and use our daughter as a pawn) then she'll do everything she can to make your life hell.
What Congreve actually wrote in the tragedy The Mourning Bride is much more vivid (and accurate!).
Heaven has no rage, like love to hatred turned,
Nor hell a fury, like a woman scorned.
Zara: Act III Scene VII.
SpydieNut said:
it turns into a power game for them. they hold most / all the chips and unfortunately they not only know it, but have family and friends egging them on most of the time.
Not to mention a court system which is still heavily biased against fathers.Four of the seven District Judges in the Family Division are women.
Of the seven, all except one (a 43 year old male) are over 60.
Until a younger, hopefully more enlightened, generation comes through nothing will change.
SickFish said:
I am just so scared that my daughter (being so young) will "forget" me in two weeks 
You need to put this stupid s
t train of thought out of your mind right now.It smacks of me me me. So stop it right now. Your daughter will be absolutely fine. She's 18 months old. People are coming in and out of her life all the time.
I had a major fallout with the ex, and at my son's age of three she pulled up the draw bridge and said I couldn't see him, it was the day before his birthday. She refused all contact and left me out in the cold.
At the time I couldn't afford solicitors and courts and only had the option of sitting it out. Which I did for three months. Then the much anticipated text came through 'Your son wants to see you...'.
My reply 'Good stuff, when can I collect him and when do you want him back?'.
Since sitting out that lonely and incredibly heartbreaking three month period we all get on really well now. It's taken a long time to get there, but we now have BBQs, day trips out together etc, I'm even trying to help the ex learn to drive.
You really need to take the long view on this one.
My lad is nine now and we get on great, he comes over to stay when ever he wants to, he stays with me most weekends
Accept what ever is on offer because at the moment your ex holds all the cards.
I guarantee that this will happen - "You will spoil your daughter rotten during the time she is with you, you'll take her everywhere she wants to go, you will sit and play games with her, she will have your undivided attention and she will crave those times with you and very quickly that second weekend will change into every weekend and the odd night during the week".
At the moment your ex holds all the cards - give it another 18 months and your daughter will be holding all the cards and you and your ex will likely be texting each other saying 'you have her, no you have her, no you have her'.
For now bite your tongue and let the ex 'win' - it won't take too long for the ex to realise that you are really on her side regarding your daughter.
Best of luck mate -
WHATEVER YOU DO KEEP A COOL CALM HEAD.
I have a lot more I could say about my circumstances but I don't want it on a public forum - drop me a PM if you like.
SickFish said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
She will never sign that.
What makes you say that? Do you think I am being unfair?You need to back off, back very very very far off.
Let her do the deciding for the moment, let her dictate the terms.
SickFish said:
I am just so scared that my daughter (being so young) will "forget" me in two weeks
No she won't. Her long term memory won't really develop for a few more years (as unfortunate as it sounds, I'm an older father to an 19 month old, so if I cark it it the next 5 years, she won't really remember me) however, the short term memory is rather different. My missus and daughter are currently enjoying a lovely vacation in sunny Istanbul. Lots of relies, treats ACTION etc. I know, for sure, based on previous holidays, my daughter will absolutely throw herself at me when she sees me at arrivals. And will want nothing to do with her Mum for a couple of days. Fair pisses her off! It's the Long game you want OP.
Edited by TVR1 on Thursday 7th July 20:25
TVR1 said:
No she won't. Her long term memory won't really develop for a few more years (as unfortunate as it sounds, I'm an older father to an 19 month old, so if I cark it it the next 5 years, she won't really remember me) however, the short term memory is rather different. My missus and daughter are currently enjoying a lovely vacation in sunny Istanbul. Lots of relies, treats ACTION etc. I know, for sure, based on previous holidays, my daughter will absolutely throw herself at me when she sees me at arrivals. And will want nothing to do with her Mum for a couple of days. Fair pisses her off!
It's the Long game you want OP.
True - episodic memory - i.e. remembering events develops post 2 years old. It's the Long game you want OP.
Before that kids are pretty flexible. As long as they see you fairly regularly and connect you to good things then you might no be front of mind, but you will be remembered.
Try it for yourself. Why is your earliest (non-reinforced by parents) memory - something that only you could know about?
OP - Easy one to negotiate - ask the mother if you can put a picture of you and your daughter (just the two of you to avoid complications) in a small frame in her room so that she sees you every day.
OP there are some good sensible replies on here and some complete and utter ste.
An hour with a family solicitor so you know the truth from the crap is well worth the money. (pick someone out of town and don't tell anybody you are going because if she thinks you are lawing up she may do the same)
The absolute last thing you want is to end up in court, in the short term there are no winners in this but every other weekend is fair and reasonable for the reasons mentioned before.
te. An hour with a family solicitor so you know the truth from the crap is well worth the money. (pick someone out of town and don't tell anybody you are going because if she thinks you are lawing up she may do the same)
The absolute last thing you want is to end up in court, in the short term there are no winners in this but every other weekend is fair and reasonable for the reasons mentioned before.
Certainly, do not present a legal agreement like that, written in pseudo-legal speak that refers to 'the child' and even worse, 'such child'. Are there likely to be other children involved in this agreement? No. Then drop the attempts to make it sound like a barrister wrote it, it will only wind her up and I'd be amazed if she signed it.
Write it out, if you must, in plain English, using the child's name. I still doubt she'd sign it, but you stand much more of a chance.
Write it out, if you must, in plain English, using the child's name. I still doubt she'd sign it, but you stand much more of a chance.
zarjaz1991 said:
Certainly, do not present a legal agreement like that, written in pseudo-legal speak that refers to 'the child' and even worse, 'such child'. Are there likely to be other children involved in this agreement? No. Then drop the attempts to make it sound like a barrister wrote it, it will only wind her up and I'd be amazed if she signed it.
Write it out, if you must, in plain English, using the child's name. I still doubt she'd sign it, but you stand much more of a chance.
Just don't do it. It's a rubbish idea... get proper advice.Write it out, if you must, in plain English, using the child's name. I still doubt she'd sign it, but you stand much more of a chance.
Children are not things to write contracts for, and certainly not by frustrated parents.
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