Is motorcycle filtering legal in Switzerland??
Discussion
Bristol spark said:
I believe its frowned upon at least in Germany.
I remember being in a traffic jam, and wondering why some bikers in front were queuing up rather than filtering to the front.
It's more or less asking for trouble as it's the norm to pull out of your lane into another without checking properly, particularly any slowish city route with 2+ lanes.I remember being in a traffic jam, and wondering why some bikers in front were queuing up rather than filtering to the front.
Carlson W6 said:
For those that wish filtering on a motorcycle was illegal.
Be careful what you wish for-
Imagine if every motorcycle started taking up the same space as a car in traffic jams
and the effect that would have on congestion.
As Motorcycles comprise ~1% of vehicular traffic I imagine the effect would be fairly negligible.Be careful what you wish for-
Imagine if every motorcycle started taking up the same space as a car in traffic jams
and the effect that would have on congestion.
Carlson W6 said:
For those that wish filtering on a motorcycle was illegal.
Be careful what you wish for-
Imagine if every motorcycle started taking up the same space as a car in traffic jams
and the effect that would have on congestion.
I don't understand the point - they "gain" progress at the cost of the other motorists as at the bottleneck (i.e. traffic light, narrowing of the road or whatever) they still have to get in and then take the space of a car at that point.Be careful what you wish for-
Imagine if every motorcycle started taking up the same space as a car in traffic jams
and the effect that would have on congestion.
EU_Foreigner said:
I don't understand the point - they "gain" progress at the cost of the other motorists as at the bottleneck (i.e. traffic light, narrowing of the road or whatever) they still have to get in and then take the space of a car at that point.
Shouldn't you be concentrating on the fact that you're contributing to the bottleneck/blockage by using a car?Must say though, in my 40 years of driving I don't think I've ever been inconvenienced by a filtering biker and I've certainly NEVER been delayed by one.
Biker 1 said:
EU_Foreigner said:
In CH, everyone is a local policeman and upholds the law.
However, it is one of the weirdest laws in the UK that filtering is allowed though, never understood that being so dangerous.
However, it is one of the weirdest laws in the UK that filtering is allowed though, never understood that being so dangerous.
Its the only reason to have a bike!!
If every other vehicle is virtually stationary, it's hardly dangerous so difficult to understand why it's not legal in some countries?
heebeegeetee said:
Must say though, in my 40 years of driving I don't think I've ever been inconvenienced by a filtering biker and I've certainly NEVER been delayed by one.
As a former biker I agree that, properly ridden, a bike rarely contributes to the bottleneck as the only situation it will do so is a road narrowed to a single vehicle width.But, I am delayed by some bikers filtering to the front of a queue then accelerating too slowly when the lights change. Not scooters, proper bikes. I always make room for bikers to get through, but the courtesy must be repaid by getting a move on.
donkmeister said:
As a former biker I agree that, properly ridden, a bike rarely contributes to the bottleneck as the only situation it will do so is a road narrowed to a single vehicle width.
But, I am delayed by some bikers filtering to the front of a queue then accelerating too slowly when the lights change. Not scooters, proper bikes. I always make room for bikers to get through, but the courtesy must be repaid by getting a move on.
Hmmm, as car drivers we create a bazillion hours of congestion per annum, so there's no point in even thinking about the seconds of delay per year some bikers may create. Its a waste of time even thinking about it imo, and vastly hypocritical too, imo.But, I am delayed by some bikers filtering to the front of a queue then accelerating too slowly when the lights change. Not scooters, proper bikes. I always make room for bikers to get through, but the courtesy must be repaid by getting a move on.
EU_Foreigner said:
I don't understand the point - they "gain" progress at the cost of the other motorists as at the bottleneck (i.e. traffic light, narrowing of the road or whatever) they still have to get in and then take the space of a car at that point.
That's not the case. Motorcycles use parts of the road network which are unavailable for use by larger vehicles, thereby reducing traffic congestion for everyone. Wordy peer-reviewed scientific paper here:
http://www.tmleuven.com/project/motorcyclesandcomm...
Easier to read tabloid version here:
http://www.gizmag.com/motorcycles-reduce-congestio...
clarkey said:
Left hand drive cars tend to sit to the extreme left of the lane in my experience - it could just have been that, regardless of the legal situation in Switzerland.
True - he was. But he was to my right, in lane 4, & there would have been just enough gap for a safe filter. I am 100% sure he saw me in his L/H door mirror, & there was eye contact. At this point, he definitely deliberately steered to the left at around 5-10mph. As per my original post, I then sounded the horn, which probably made him even more determined to squash me against the white van in lane 3..... w
kerEU_Foreigner said:
In CH, everyone is a local policeman and upholds the law.
However, it is one of the weirdest laws in the UK that filtering is allowed though, never understood that being so dangerous.
Bit of info for you:However, it is one of the weirdest laws in the UK that filtering is allowed though, never understood that being so dangerous.
US Article said:
In a recent Berkeley study undertaken with the California Highway Patrol’s assistance, 7,836 motorcycle crashes were examined closely, with some 1,163 of these crashes having occurred while the rider was lane splitting.
Riders who were splitting at the time of their accident were significantly less likely to be injured in every category than those who weren’t: 45 percent fewer head injuries, 21 percent fewer neck injuries, 32 percent fewer torso injuries, 12 percent fewer arm/leg injuries, and 55 percent fewer fatalities.
This is quite possibly because the majority of those splitting accidents happened at speeds between 1 and 30 mph. The data also shows that the safest way to lane split is to travel at less than 30 mph, and less than 10 mph above the speed of the surrounding traffic. Injury rates leap up in all categories when both of these conditions are violated.
So filtering is safer for the rider. The single biggest cause of motorcycle accidents in America is being rear ended by another vehicle; filtering reduces the chances of a motorcycle being in that situation by quite an amount.Riders who were splitting at the time of their accident were significantly less likely to be injured in every category than those who weren’t: 45 percent fewer head injuries, 21 percent fewer neck injuries, 32 percent fewer torso injuries, 12 percent fewer arm/leg injuries, and 55 percent fewer fatalities.
This is quite possibly because the majority of those splitting accidents happened at speeds between 1 and 30 mph. The data also shows that the safest way to lane split is to travel at less than 30 mph, and less than 10 mph above the speed of the surrounding traffic. Injury rates leap up in all categories when both of these conditions are violated.
Same US Article said:
A 2012 Belgian study found that if just 10 percent of drivers were to switch to motorcycles and filter through traffic, travel times would decrease for the remaining car drivers by some eight minutes per journey. This benefit would not exist if motorcyclists ignored the inherent advantages of their smaller, narrower vehicles and sat in line like cars.
The same study found considerable environmental benefits to lane splitting. Not because bikes emit less carbon (many larger bikes are as bad as cars), but because every bike that lane splits actively reduces the amount of time every other vehicle on the road spends sitting in traffic jams.
Filtering reduces congestion.The same study found considerable environmental benefits to lane splitting. Not because bikes emit less carbon (many larger bikes are as bad as cars), but because every bike that lane splits actively reduces the amount of time every other vehicle on the road spends sitting in traffic jams.
This is from an American article as well, where filtering is illegal in all states bar one.
Like most riders, filtering is a convenient and safer way to negoitate traffic on a motorbike. When I'm filtering, I only want car drivers to do one thing; carry on as normal.
If a gap is big enough, I'll take it. If it is too small, I'll leave it. If you want to change lanes in slow moving traffic, go ahead, but do it properly (mirror, signal, maneuver).
The simple fact is that filtering isn't dangerous; people in cars driving in a sub-standard way is. People who change lanes without indicating. People who sit on someone's arse then have to emergency brake. People who drift across their lane because they are on their phone. People who jump 3 lanes of the motorway to make a junction because they didn't plan properly.
On a bike; I can see what 90% of drivers are going to do before they actually do it; even the idiots that seem to make spur of the moment decisions. Riding a bike makes you hyper-sensitive to the actions of other road users.
I will literally sit in the car whilst driving and call out what somebody 3 cars ahead is going to do, 5 seconds before they do it.
And all this stuff about blindspots is nonsense as well; I can't be the only person in a car that does a shoulder check? Your head isn't locked in place, it does rotate and you can use it check your blindspot.
Most people don't because they are fecking lazy and s
t drivers; which puts motorcyclists at risk. "Sorry mate, I didn't see you...."; fk off and open your eyes........Mini rant over
Edited by The Beaver King on Tuesday 26th July 09:30
The Beaver King said:
Filtering is safer.
That is not what those stats tell you. They tell you that the risk of injury in a motorcycle accident is reduced if the speed of the motorcycle is lower than 30mph.The risk of an accident while filtering (lane splitting) is increased since they make up about one sixth of accidents, but the number of miles covered by motorcycle not lane splitting will be more than five-times greater than those which are lane splitting.
boyse7en said:
The Beaver King said:
Filtering is safer.
That is not what those stats tell you. They tell you that the risk of injury in a motorcycle accident is reduced if the speed of the motorcycle is lower than 30mph.The risk of an accident while filtering (lane splitting) is increased since they make up about one sixth of accidents, but the number of miles covered by motorcycle not lane splitting will be more than five-times greater than those which are lane splitting.
The Beaver King said:
...
The simple fact is that filtering isn't dangerous; people in cars driving in a sub-standard way is. People who change lanes without indicating. People who sit on someone's arse then have to emergency brake. People who drift across their lane because they are on their phone. People who jump 3 lanes of the motorway to make a junction because they didn't plan properly...
Just to add, any road user driving in a sub-standard way is the problem. Could be a car driver, could also be a biker ('filtering' too fast) or tractor driver.The simple fact is that filtering isn't dangerous; people in cars driving in a sub-standard way is. People who change lanes without indicating. People who sit on someone's arse then have to emergency brake. People who drift across their lane because they are on their phone. People who jump 3 lanes of the motorway to make a junction because they didn't plan properly...
I used to make space for 'filtering' bikes, but seldom do so now after a brief encounter with one too many collapsing drain gullies. Also some issues with intent and action (move over in anticipation but biker hangs back thinking my driving is erratic, or some such).
Last week a filtering biker was fatally wounded just down the road (A22 Uckfield). He failed to spot the car turning into his 'lane' and the car failed to spot him. Therefore I still think 'filtering' is potentially very very dangerous.
The Berkeley study looks intuitively correct.
Beaver seems to misunderstand what it's saying.
Filtering, as practised, looks dangerous (if you *assume* that most biking mileage is not filtering)
Filtering at slower speeds and a low differential speed to the traffic is common sense and i've witnessed a few filtering incidents.
Filtering is great, do it carefully.
Beaver seems to misunderstand what it's saying.
Filtering, as practised, looks dangerous (if you *assume* that most biking mileage is not filtering)
Filtering at slower speeds and a low differential speed to the traffic is common sense and i've witnessed a few filtering incidents.
Filtering is great, do it carefully.
Further info for discussion
A full article on filtering said:
A new study by the University of California Berkeley shows that motorcyclists who split lanes in heavy traffic are significantly less likely to be struck from behind by other motorists and are less likely to suffer head or torso injuries, the American Motorcyclist Association reports.
Researchers, led by Dr. Thomas Rice of the Safe Transportation Research and Education Center (SafeTREC), reviewed nearly 6,000 motorcycle-involved traffic collisions between June 2012 and August 2013, including 997 in which the riders were splitting lanes at the time of the crash.
"Perhaps one of the most dangerous situations for any motorcyclist is being caught in congested traffic, where stop-and-go vehicles, distracted and inattentive vehicle operators, and environmental conditions increase the risk of physical contact with another vehicle or hazard," said Wayne Allard, AMA vice president for government relations. "Reducing a motorcyclist's exposure to vehicles that are frequently accelerating and decelerating on congested roadways can be one way to reduce rear-end collisions for those most vulnerable in traffic."
Among the U.C. Berkeley findings:
Motorcycle lane splitting is a common practice in many countries throughout the world - particularly in the highly urbanized areas of Europe and Asia. Long recognized as a way to alleviate traffic congestion and reduce the risk of crashes, the practice nevertheless remains largely prohibited in the United States, with California currently being the exception.
The UC-Berekley study is the latest to examine crash data related to lane splitting and follows a similar report issued in October 2014.
"We want to remind motorists that permitting lane splitting is not the same as requiring it," Allard said. "Where it is allowed, lane splitting is an issue of choice, and formalizing the practice will give riders and law enforcement alike clear guidelines for its responsible practice."
The AMA formally endorses responsible lane splitting and will continue to assist groups and individuals working to bring legal lane splitting and/or filtering to their states.
Researchers, led by Dr. Thomas Rice of the Safe Transportation Research and Education Center (SafeTREC), reviewed nearly 6,000 motorcycle-involved traffic collisions between June 2012 and August 2013, including 997 in which the riders were splitting lanes at the time of the crash.
"Perhaps one of the most dangerous situations for any motorcyclist is being caught in congested traffic, where stop-and-go vehicles, distracted and inattentive vehicle operators, and environmental conditions increase the risk of physical contact with another vehicle or hazard," said Wayne Allard, AMA vice president for government relations. "Reducing a motorcyclist's exposure to vehicles that are frequently accelerating and decelerating on congested roadways can be one way to reduce rear-end collisions for those most vulnerable in traffic."
Among the U.C. Berkeley findings:
- Lane-splitting is safe if done in traffic moving at 50 mph or less, and if motorcyclists do not exceed the speed of other vehicles by more than 15 mph
- 69 percent of lane-splitting motorcyclists were exceeding the traffic speed by 15 mph or less speed differentials up to 15 mph were not associated with changes in the frequency of injury
- Compared to riders who were not splitting lanes, lane-splitting motorcyclists were markedly less likely to suffer head injury (9 percent vs. 17 percent), torso injury (19 percent vs. 29 percent) or fatal injury (1.2 percent vs. 3 percent)
- Lane-splitting riders were significantly less likely to be rear-ended than non-lane-splitting riders (2.6 percent vs. 4.6 percent)
- Lane-splitting motorcyclists were more likely to be wearing a full-face helmet than other motorcyclists (81 percent vs. 67 percent)
- Compared to other motorcyclists, lane-splitting riders were more often riding on weekdays and during commuting hours, were using better helmets and were traveling at slower speeds;
- Lane-splitting riders were less likely to have been using alcohol.
Motorcycle lane splitting is a common practice in many countries throughout the world - particularly in the highly urbanized areas of Europe and Asia. Long recognized as a way to alleviate traffic congestion and reduce the risk of crashes, the practice nevertheless remains largely prohibited in the United States, with California currently being the exception.
The UC-Berekley study is the latest to examine crash data related to lane splitting and follows a similar report issued in October 2014.
"We want to remind motorists that permitting lane splitting is not the same as requiring it," Allard said. "Where it is allowed, lane splitting is an issue of choice, and formalizing the practice will give riders and law enforcement alike clear guidelines for its responsible practice."
The AMA formally endorses responsible lane splitting and will continue to assist groups and individuals working to bring legal lane splitting and/or filtering to their states.
The Don of Croy said:
Last week a filtering biker was fatally wounded just down the road (A22 Uckfield). He failed to spot the car turning into his 'lane' and the car failed to spot him. Therefore I still think 'filtering' is potentially very very dangerous.
I know the Uckfield bypass very well - I assume you are referring to the tragic crash the other day when a 59 year old got killed(??)Anyway, I don't recall any part of that road being dual carriageway in that area, unless you're talking about the Hailsham bypass?
I drive that road weekly as well, it is very wide and the first opportunity to overtake slower vehicles. As soon as you come off the roundabouts, it is common for cars to move to the middle (not a lane as such) to finally overtake the slower cars.
You do often see bikers trying to get there first whilst the cars are just about to overtake. You can not see the bikes as you are turning on the straight road and they increase the danger levels by trying to get in the middle first whilst a car is doing the same.
You do often see bikers trying to get there first whilst the cars are just about to overtake. You can not see the bikes as you are turning on the straight road and they increase the danger levels by trying to get in the middle first whilst a car is doing the same.
The Don of Croy said:
Last week a filtering biker was fatally wounded just down the road (A22 Uckfield). He failed to spot the car turning into his 'lane' and the car failed to spot him. Therefore I still think 'filtering' is potentially very very dangerous.
Well many things are potentially dangerous. When you hear of a car driver who has been killed when failing to negotiate a bend, do you propose that either car driving or driving around bends should be banned?The Don of Croy said:
Also some issues with intent and action (move over in anticipation but biker hangs back thinking my driving is erratic, or some such).
That's me to a tee. Had a few issues years ago thinking that a driver was pulling over to let me through, only for them to suddenly veer back across the lane. I guess they were looking at their phone/in their handbag on the passenger seat/falling asleep. So now if a car pulls in towards the left, I hang back for a few seconds just to try and make sure that they do actually mean it. A couple of flashes of the left indicator (obviously not if there is a junction coming up) might be an idea to show that you are aware of the biker and of your intentions.
Edit: This is when I'm passing cars at relatively normal road speeds and I treat each one as an overtake. Filtering, to me, means passing stopped or virtually stationary traffic in a queue and is a different technique.
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