Violence against women

Author
Discussion

beeej

Original Poster:

1,400 posts

192 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Ello.

I heard sweary chavvy shouting in the street today and poked my head out of the kids' window to see a domestic going on in the street. A man pushing a woman quite forcefully. He pushed her enough that she stumbled and was defending herself. But not hard enough to fall down for the times he pushed her. He stopped only when I shouted at him. No punching, no blood. They both walked off.

I logged an incident on 101. And e-mailed the video I had of the big guy shoving the small woman around.

What's most likely course of events here? I was thinking: she won't press charges. It's not assault. It's not even a crime so won't make the stats. And you can assume this is the sort of sad thing that happens in the UK all the time...






Edited by beeej on Sunday 24th July 18:50

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Assault = application of force to the person of another without the other's consent.

lord trumpton

7,320 posts

125 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
I've made a mistake of intervening between a rowing couple - both were pissed up. Bloke started getting aggressive and woman looked scared.

I marched over and offered to intervene and was about to give the bloke a straightener when the woman started attacking me with a beer can for threatening her boyfriend.

fk 'em both.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
OP is correct - if neither party confirms assault then theres no crime to record. Generally they can get sufficient detail to record the matter as a domestic incident for future reference though.

Terzo123

4,309 posts

207 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Bigends said:
OP is correct - if neither party confirms assault then theres no crime to record. Generally they can get sufficient detail to record the matter as a domestic incident for future reference though.
In Scotland it doesn't work like that.

If there's cctv of the assault and the OPs statement, then the guy would be getting the jail, even if the female refused to make a complaint.


Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Terzo123 said:
Bigends said:
OP is correct - if neither party confirms assault then theres no crime to record. Generally they can get sufficient detail to record the matter as a domestic incident for future reference though.
In Scotland it doesn't work like that.

If there's cctv of the assault and the OPs statement, then the guy would be getting the jail, even if the female refused to make a complaint.
Works like that in England - no victim - no crime (unless there are some exceptional circumstances)

98elise

26,366 posts

160 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Terzo123 said:
Bigends said:
OP is correct - if neither party confirms assault then theres no crime to record. Generally they can get sufficient detail to record the matter as a domestic incident for future reference though.
In Scotland it doesn't work like that.

If there's cctv of the assault and the OPs statement, then the guy would be getting the jail, even if the female refused to make a complaint.
Works like that in England - no victim - no crime (unless there are some exceptional circumstances)
Scotland have it right. If one person assaults another it shouldn't only be a crime if the victim complains about it.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
98elise said:
Bigends said:
Terzo123 said:
Bigends said:
OP is correct - if neither party confirms assault then theres no crime to record. Generally they can get sufficient detail to record the matter as a domestic incident for future reference though.
In Scotland it doesn't work like that.

If there's cctv of the assault and the OPs statement, then the guy would be getting the jail, even if the female refused to make a complaint.
Works like that in England - no victim - no crime (unless there are some exceptional circumstances)
Scotland have it right. If one person assaults another it shouldn't only be a crime if the victim complains about it.
Only recorded if theres an 'apparently reliable witness' whatever one of those may be - leaves things open to malicious third party complaints i'd have thought

Terzo123

4,309 posts

207 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Only recorded if theres an 'apparently reliable witness' whatever one of those may be - leaves things open to malicious third party complaints i'd have thought
Corroboration is required in Scotland, so a single malicious third party complaint wouldn't result in arrest.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Terzo123 said:
Bigends said:
Only recorded if theres an 'apparently reliable witness' whatever one of those may be - leaves things open to malicious third party complaints i'd have thought
Corroboration is required in Scotland, so a single malicious third party complaint wouldn't result in arrest.
Ok - just read that on the Police scotland counting rules - no mention of corroboration for recording purposes

Edited by Bigends on Sunday 24th July 20:50

Cat

3,014 posts

268 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Terzo123 said:
Corroboration is required in Scotland, so a single malicious third party complaint wouldn't result in arrest.
It may well result in detention, which is the equivalent to arrest on suspicion in E&W, so that the alleged offender can be interviewed. What it shouldn't result in is someone being charged.

A lack of corroboration shouldn't mean that an incident doesn't get recorded as a crime.

Cat

Terzo123

4,309 posts

207 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
Terzo123 said:
Corroboration is required in Scotland, so a single malicious third party complaint wouldn't result in arrest.
It may well result in detention, which is the equivalent to arrest on suspicion in E&W, so that the alleged offender can be interviewed. What it shouldn't result in is someone being charged.

A lack of corroboration shouldn't mean that an incident doesn't get recorded as a crime.

Cat
I was just trying to keep it simple for our English friends.

Mk3Spitfire

2,921 posts

127 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
beeej said:
Ello.

I heard sweary chavvy shouting in the street today and poked my head out of the kids' window to see a domestic going on in the street. A man pushing a woman quite forcefully. He pushed her enough that she stumbled and was defending herself. But not hard enough to fall down for the times he pushed her. He stopped only when I shouted at him. No punching, no blood. They both walked off.

I logged an incident on 101. And e-mailed the video I had of the big guy shoving the small woman around.

What's most likely course of events here? I was thinking: she won't press charges. It's not assault. It's not even a crime so won't make the stats. And you can assume this is the sort of sad thing that happens in the UK all the time...






Edited by beeej on Sunday 24th July 18:50
Next time phone 999 when it's happening. It was an assault. In fact it was battery. Assault doesn't even need contact to be made. The problem is, as above, the female quite possibly won't support any police action. Although around here, video footage and your statement would still see the guy arrested. As for charging...who knows with the CPS.

TheBear

1,940 posts

245 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
beeej said:
Ello.

I heard sweary chavvy shouting in the street today and poked my head out of the kids' window to see a domestic going on in the street. A man pushing a woman quite forcefully. He pushed her enough that she stumbled and was defending herself. But not hard enough to fall down for the times he pushed her. He stopped only when I shouted at him. No punching, no blood. They both walked off.

I logged an incident on 101. And e-mailed the video I had of the big guy shoving the small woman around.

What's most likely course of events here? I was thinking: she won't press charges. It's not assault. It's not even a crime so won't make the stats. And you can assume this is the sort of sad thing that happens in the UK all the time...






Edited by beeej on Sunday 24th July 18:50
If your video shows evidence of an assault (which shoving around would be) then it would be recorded as an assault and investigated in the area I work in. If they were identified then the male would be questioned, almost certainly arrested even without a complaint as it is irrelevant in a domestic. What would happen after that would depend on interview.

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Terzo123 said:
Bigends said:
OP is correct - if neither party confirms assault then theres no crime to record. Generally they can get sufficient detail to record the matter as a domestic incident for future reference though.
In Scotland it doesn't work like that.

If there's cctv of the assault and the OPs statement, then the guy would be getting the jail, even if the female refused to make a complaint.
Works like that in England - no victim - no crime (unless there are some exceptional circumstances)
Domestics is an area where English forces are encouraged to consider charging even without a complaint if there evidence to do so, far too many 'no complaint' or 'complaint withdrawn' domestics where one or other of the parties ended up dead in the fullness of time.

cymtriks

4,560 posts

244 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
beeej said:
...the big guy shoving the small woman around...
You don't know anything about them so just stop it and/or report it and leave the judgement to someone who does that job. After some of the abuse I've seen women give men over the years (including regular physical assaults, use of weapons and numerous false accusations to friends, family or police) I wouldn't start with the assumption that it's always the man's fault. For all you know he could have put up with months or even years of provocation before finally losing it. Then there are plenty of couples who deserve each other...

BlueHave

4,636 posts

107 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Would probably have kept my nose out of it.

Both adults and both old enough to know better, why should I put my safety in danger intervening in two knob ends domestic.

Selfish attitude on my part but i've seen people beaten to a pulp for getting involved in incidents that didn't concern them.

They got fk all thanks from anyone, especially the plod.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
beeej said:
Ello.

I heard sweary chavvy shouting in the street today and poked my head out of the kids' window to see a domestic going on in the street. A man pushing a woman quite forcefully. He pushed her enough that she stumbled and was defending herself. But not hard enough to fall down for the times he pushed her. He stopped only when I shouted at him. No punching, no blood. They both walked off.

I logged an incident on 101. And e-mailed the video I had of the big guy shoving the small woman around.

What's most likely course of events here? I was thinking: she won't press charges. It's not assault. It's not even a crime so won't make the stats. And you can assume this is the sort of sad thing that happens in the UK all the time...






Edited by beeej on Sunday 24th July 18:50
Do you know who they are and/or where they live?

If not, how are the police expected to trace the,?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
BlueHave said:
Would probably have kept my nose out of it.

Both adults and both old enough to know better, why should I put my safety in danger intervening in two knob ends domestic.

Selfish attitude on my part but i've seen people beaten to a pulp for getting involved in incidents that didn't concern them.

They got fk all thanks from anyone, especially the plod.
Well fortunately a lot of people aren't like you.

cymtriks said:
beeej said:
...the big guy shoving the small woman around...
You don't know anything about them so just stop it and/or report it and leave the judgement to someone who does that job. After some of the abuse I've seen women give men over the years (including regular physical assaults, use of weapons and numerous false accusations to friends, family or police) I wouldn't start with the assumption that it's always the man's fault. For all you know he could have put up with months or even years of provocation before finally losing it. Then there are plenty of couples who deserve each other...
Didn't he pretty much do both of the things in your first sentence?

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
Assault = application of force to the person of another without the other's consent.
I thought that was battery. Isn't assault the threat of immediate force?