Taking the law into your own hands

Taking the law into your own hands

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Discussion

Cat

3,014 posts

268 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
I have no idea what I would do because I have no idea how the situation would develop.

You would ask them to move (or not?), probably get told to fk off, leave it at that and either remain standing yourself, or leave someone else standing there and I wouldn't.
What would you do when they told you to fk off?

Cat

roofer

5,136 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
Digby said:
I have no idea what I would do because I have no idea how the situation would develop.

You would ask them to move (or not?), probably get told to fk off, leave it at that and either remain standing yourself, or leave someone else standing there and I wouldn't.
What would you do when they told you to fk off?

Cat
Stumble onto them when the train lurched, into a rib.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
What would you do when they told you to fk off?

Cat
Become the subject of a thread on Pistonheads.

roofer

5,136 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
Cat said:
What would you do when they told you to fk off?

Cat
Become the subject of a thread on Pistonheads.
hehe

I think I will get my Nan to start knitting PH tank tops for these types.

Cat

3,014 posts

268 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
Become the subject of a thread on Pistonheads.
It would appear that you aren't prepared to answer questions because they are hypothetical (despite being happy to ask them of others).

If you are confident that your approach to dealing with someone with their feet on a seat is the correct one why the reluctance to say how far you'd go to make them stop doing it?

Cat

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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I wonder if people would have the same views if an 11 year old had a 70 year old in an armlock

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Friday 29th July 2016
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roofer said:
I'd like to thank the bib here for their contribution and education, which it is, as it stands today.

It's something us older folk struggle to comprehend sometimes, I was taught to respect my elders, brought my lad up the same.

If I didn't get out of my seat on the bus/train for an elder/woman, I got a clip round the ear off of mum. I wouldn't dream of putting my feet on seats, expecting another clip round the ear from anyone if I did.

The erosion and libralism of society is to blame, the old guard never had it all wrong...did they ?
Generally no, there was a sense of collective responsibility for dealing with feral children. Taking extremes out of the equation, common sense should prevail. If unaccompanied kids are being a pain to everyone they should be 'encouraged' to calm down. "If you don't stop that you'll get a clip round the ear", now the child can choose whether they would like a clip or not thumbup

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
It would appear that you aren't prepared to answer questions because they are hypothetical (despite being happy to ask them of others).

If you are confident that your approach to dealing with someone with their feet on a seat is the correct one why the reluctance to say how far you'd go to make them stop doing it?

Cat
You are trying to be too clever I'm afraid.

As I mentioned, I have no idea what I would do because they may say "Sorry" and it would be all over, or they may pull a knife.

If you are fishing for examples, I could fill several pages, but I don't want to be reported.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
roofer said:
hehe

I think I will get my Nan to start knitting PH tank tops for these types.
hehe

Cat

3,014 posts

268 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
You are trying to be too clever I'm afraid.

As I mentioned, I have no idea what I would do because they may say "Sorry" and it would be all over, or they may pull a knife.

If you are fishing for examples, I could fill several pages, but I don't want to be reported.
It's not a difficult question. The child does nothing other than refuse to remove their feet from the seat. No knives, no abuse, just a refusal to move their feet.

What would you do to make them take their feet off the seat?

Cat

dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
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Do cheeky kids terrify you that much that you would warrant violence against them?

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
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Cat said:
It's not a difficult question. The child does nothing other than refuse to remove their feet from the seat. No knives, no abuse, just a refusal to move their feet.

What would you do to make them take their feet off the seat?

Cat
Move them for them if they won't do so when asked. It's not that hard of an answer and was obvious from the start.

You will now go on to ask me what if they resist and I will have to explain how I will push harder and that as an adult, there is no way I wouldn't be able to move them.

I would then enjoy my seat or provide the seat for someone else.

The kids get a story to tell their mates and laugh about it (again), someone gets a seat and you and those like you get to report me.


Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
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dudleybloke said:
Do cheeky kids terrify you that much that you would warrant violence against them?
Do they terrify you so much you wouldn't intervene?

I'm glad the old guy did what he did, but I doubt I would bother if there were plenty of seats available.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
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This might be of interest:
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/assault-gbh-abh/
Laying hands on the youth is common assault.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/item...
as the 'victim' is a child & other children are present that could be considered an aggravating factor.

Bear in mind the little darlings could then concoct a story, complete with a few self-inflicted extra bruises, that could result in a more serious result.
As happened to a former colleague of mine. He was actually at Crown Court in the middle of the trial for the alleged assault ABH when they were overheard by a local cafe owner discussing how they'd stitched up a copper - the case was being covered in local media. Cafe owner reported it & the end result was that the judge stopped the trial & threw the case out.
What action was taken by the CPS against them? Nothing.


Edited by paintman on Sunday 31st July 09:44

Cat

3,014 posts

268 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
Move them for them if they won't do so when asked. It's not that hard of an answer and was obvious from the start.

You will now go on to ask me what if they resist and I will have to explain how I will push harder and that as an adult, there is no way I wouldn't be able to move them.

I would then enjoy my seat or provide the seat for someone else.

The kids get a story to tell their mates and laugh about it (again), someone gets a seat and you and those like you get to report me.
Thank you. What if it was a 16/17 year old and you couldn't simply then push out of the way?

Cat

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
dudleybloke said:
Do cheeky kids terrify you that much that you would warrant violence against them?
Do they terrify you so much you wouldn't intervene?
You seem to be of the opinion that violence is the default solution, unless you're too terrified. That sounds like a good definition of a bully to me.

I - and many others - are of the opinion that violence is only justified in very rare cases. Can you see the difference?

Digby said:
I'm glad the old guy did what he did, but I doubt I would bother if there were plenty of seats available.

dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
dudleybloke said:
Do cheeky kids terrify you that much that you would warrant violence against them?
Do they terrify you so much you wouldn't intervene?

I'm glad the old guy did what he did, but I doubt I would bother if there were plenty of seats available.
I certainly wouldn't have to get physical. My 1000yrd stare and deep, authoritative baratone vocal technique would get the job done.
wink

Edited by dudleybloke on Sunday 31st July 23:41

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Sunday 31st July 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
Digby said:
Move them for them if they won't do so when asked. It's not that hard of an answer and was obvious from the start.

You will now go on to ask me what if they resist and I will have to explain how I will push harder and that as an adult, there is no way I wouldn't be able to move them.

I would then enjoy my seat or provide the seat for someone else.

The kids get a story to tell their mates and laugh about it (again), someone gets a seat and you and those like you get to report me.
Thank you. What if it was a 16/17 year old and you couldn't simply then push out of the way?

Cat
Ask them, try to move them and see what developed. I wouldn't care if it were a trained Navy Seal sitting there. If my attempts failed, I would be happy I still tried.

That to me is still a better option than doing nothing or going as far as asking and then standing (or seeing someone else stand) as I was laughed at and abused.

As I say, if you were being followed and were scared, I would intervene. If that involved pushing and shoving to get rid of them and you subsequently reporting me, so be it.

Digby

8,230 posts

245 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
You seem to be of the opinion that violence is the default solution, unless you're too terrified. That sounds like a good definition of a bully to me.

I - and many others - are of the opinion that violence is only justified in very rare cases. Can you see the difference?
You see violence, I see an old man trying to teach a gobby tt a lesson. We'll never agree. I am the antithesis of a bully, as several bullies discovered at school and when growing up.

Perhaps if we went back to the days of having blackboard rubbers thrown for insubordination and slippers / canes at school, they wouldn't have had their feet on the seat in the first place.

We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.

"Touch me and I'll sue" is the way forward it seems and it's defended by people who would see the lightest touch on the shoulder as a physical assault. These kids (and many adults) often get to do what they want, when they want, as many times as they want safe in the knowledge that there's either nothing anyone can do, or that because they scream "DON'T YOU TOUCH ME" so loudly (as though it's a massive violation of their civil liberty to take them by the arm to stop them kicking a cat etc) courts will side with them no matter what.

And who can blame them?

Those trying to suggest what this old guy did was a despicable and violent act need a bit of a wake up call. Such attitudes contribute to the lack of respect and disobedience we constantly see today. You helped create these situations, so don't be surprised if people like myself try to protect people from them if I am able.


mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Monday 1st August 2016
quotequote all
Digby said:
You see violence, I see an old man trying to teach a gobby tt a lesson. We'll never agree. I am the antithesis of a bully, as several bullies discovered at school and when growing up.

Perhaps if we went back to the days of having blackboard rubbers thrown for insubordination and slippers / canes at school, they wouldn't have had their feet on the seat in the first place.

We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.

"Touch me and I'll sue" is the way forward it seems and it's defended by people who would see the lightest touch on the shoulder as a physical assault. These kids (and many adults) often get to do what they want, when they want, as many times as they want safe in the knowledge that there's either nothing anyone can do, or that because they scream "DON'T YOU TOUCH ME" so loudly (as though it's a massive violation of their civil liberty to take them by the arm to stop them kicking a cat etc) courts will side with them no matter what.

And who can blame them?

Those trying to suggest what this old guy did was a despicable and violent act need a bit of a wake up call. Such attitudes contribute to the lack of respect and disobedience we constantly see today. You helped create these situations, so don't be surprised if people like myself try to protect people from them if I am able.
what a surprise yet another Powerfully built PHer wanting to take robust physical action against a chattel ...

perhaps someone should have kicked you repeatedly in the head as a child until your sociopathic views weren;t an issue any longer ???