Taking the law into your own hands
Discussion
Digby said:
You see violence, I see an old man trying to teach a gobby t
t a lesson.
Yes, absolutely, teaching them a lesson. Problem is, the lesson it teaches is that physical violence is a suitable adult response to behaviour of others with which one might disagree.t a lesson.I dislike smoking, can I punch any smoker I see?
You'll recall a poor girl in India last year(?) was gang raped to death on a bus by a group of men who disagreed with her choice of bus-mate.
In certain parts of the Arab world, homosexuals (both suspected and confirmed) are taken to the top of tall buildings and thrown to their deaths.
We live in an imperfect world. The answer occasionally is to add violence. This case, where a child is doing something which might, at worst, be reasonably described as mildly irritating is not one such occasion.
Digby said:
Ask them, try to move them and see what developed. I wouldn't care if it were a trained Navy Seal sitting there. If my attempts failed, I would be happy I still tried.
That to me is still a better option than doing nothing or going as far as asking and then standing (or seeing someone else stand) as I was laughed at and abused.
As I say, if you were being followed and were scared, I would intervene. If that involved pushing and shoving to get rid of them and you subsequently reporting me, so be it.
You keep comparing criminal acts (following someone and abusing them, kicking cats etc.) with non criminal acts (putting feet on a seat) and using the fact that you would intervene physically with one as justification for the other. That to me is still a better option than doing nothing or going as far as asking and then standing (or seeing someone else stand) as I was laughed at and abused.
As I say, if you were being followed and were scared, I would intervene. If that involved pushing and shoving to get rid of them and you subsequently reporting me, so be it.
Would you be happy with someone using physical force on one of your family because they were doing something perfectly legal which that person felt was anti social? For instance listening to excessively loud music through headphones on a crowded train or bus.
Cat
Digby said:
Perhaps if we went back to the days of having blackboard rubbers thrown for insubordination and slippers / canes at school, they wouldn't have had their feet on the seat in the first place.
That's selective rose-tinting of the past. Digby said:
We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.
Are you suggesting that's the only way children can learn there are consequences for "disobedience"? TooMany2cvs said:
Digby said:
You see violence
Yes, I do see a punch to the ribs and an armlock as violence. There's a reason for that. Because it IS violence. It IS criminal assault.WinstonWolf said:
It's also the method that works very well in all other species. Youngsters get a bit too full of themselves, they get a cuff. Quick and effective...
Other species do lots of things that we don't/shouldn't.Dogs eat their puppies' poop to keep the nursing area clean. But we have better ways.
R E S T E C P said:
WinstonWolf said:
It's also the method that works very well in all other species. Youngsters get a bit too full of themselves, they get a cuff. Quick and effective...
Other species do lots of things that we don't/shouldn't.Dogs eat their puppies' poop to keep the nursing area clean. But we have better ways.
Give them a warning, if they don't calm down at least they've made an informed decision to be clipped.
La Liga said:
Digby said:
We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.
Are you suggesting that's the only way children can learn there are consequences for "disobedience"? Once I was at a train station and three young lads about 13 or 14 were jumping around on top of the shelters, swearing, mouthing off and generally being obnoxious.
Bloke of about age 25 all covered in tattoos tells them to keep the swearing down as there are kids around. They give him a bit of verbal so he walks over, picks up one of their bikes, throws it across the railway tracks into the bramble bushes and walks off. They missed their train.
I could never in my life have imagined that was how it would play out based on the characters involved. But it was pretty great.
Bloke of about age 25 all covered in tattoos tells them to keep the swearing down as there are kids around. They give him a bit of verbal so he walks over, picks up one of their bikes, throws it across the railway tracks into the bramble bushes and walks off. They missed their train.
I could never in my life have imagined that was how it would play out based on the characters involved. But it was pretty great.
Cat said:
You keep comparing criminal acts (following someone and abusing them, kicking cats etc.) with non criminal acts (putting feet on a seat) and using the fact that you would intervene physically with one as justification for the other.
Cat
I'm not comparing them, I'm asking at what point people do something about a situation.Cat
What would you do in such situations? Watch an animal be tortured whilst you call the police? Ask them to stop several hundred times? Do you spring in to "Oh, hang on, this is a criminal act, I shall get involved" mode? What do you do when they tell you to get lost? Let the animal die?
This forum does make me chuckle. Nobody will admit it, but if said gobby kid had his legs removed from a seat to allow an elderly person to sit down etc, secretly, they would be sat on that train somewhere else thinking 'Well done' to whomever removed their legs or stopped abuse being thrown at one of their own
It seems that as soon as a web page is fired up, they want to project a different image of themselves to the world.
Cat said:
Would you be happy with someone using physical force on one of your family because they were doing something perfectly legal which that person felt was anti social? For instance listening to excessively loud music through headphones on a crowded train or bus.
I already told you; if that old guy had me in an arm lock and my parents were on that train, they would make me appologise to him.Edited by Digby on Monday 1st August 16:57
otolith said:
La Liga said:
Digby said:
We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.
Are you suggesting that's the only way children can learn there are consequences for "disobedience"? La Liga said:
Digby said:
Perhaps if we went back to the days of having blackboard rubbers thrown for insubordination and slippers / canes at school, they wouldn't have had their feet on the seat in the first place.
That's selective rose-tinting of the past. Digby said:
We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.
La Liga said:
Are you suggesting that's the only way children can learn there are consequences for "disobedience"?
You know what the answer will be, why bother asking? What an utterly ridiculous question.La Liga said:
otolith said:
La Liga said:
Digby said:
We can't have that now though, can we? We don't want children growing up thinking their will be consequences for their disobedience.
Are you suggesting that's the only way children can learn there are consequences for "disobedience"? So to think there going to be too bothered about some middle aged random guy deciding to try and show them who's boss, i don't buy it.
_dobbo_ said:
Once I was at a train station and three young lads about 13 or 14 were jumping around on top of the shelters, swearing, mouthing off and generally being obnoxious.
Bloke of about age 25 all covered in tattoos tells them to keep the swearing down as there are kids around. They give him a bit of verbal so he walks over, picks up one of their bikes, throws it across the railway tracks into the bramble bushes and walks off. They missed their train.
I could never in my life have imagined that was how it would play out based on the characters involved. But it was pretty great.
How terrible. Many here would much rather have endured the train ride with these characters.Bloke of about age 25 all covered in tattoos tells them to keep the swearing down as there are kids around. They give him a bit of verbal so he walks over, picks up one of their bikes, throws it across the railway tracks into the bramble bushes and walks off. They missed their train.
I could never in my life have imagined that was how it would play out based on the characters involved. But it was pretty great.
Sorry, Freudian slip. What I meant to say was, they all thought 'Thank goodness for that'
Digby said:
How terrible. Many here would much rather have endured the train ride with these characters.
Sorry, Freudian slip. What I meant to say was, they all thought 'Thank goodness for that'
This could be an interesting conversation if the 'bring back the 1940s' half was being well represented. Unfortunately it seems that Mr Bean's less able-minded cousin has taken up the mantle.Sorry, Freudian slip. What I meant to say was, they all thought 'Thank goodness for that'
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