Taking the law into your own hands
Discussion
Digby said:
May aswell get the chainsaw and my Jason mask out and do a proper job? Right up my street.
Funny how several of those who condone this old mans actions are the ones in this thread showing a lack of forum etiquette and getting extremely passionate and angry.
Yet apparently I am a one man vigilante squad bully with sociopathic views, more stupid than Mr Bean, proud of being violent, like to get 'punchy' and should have been kicked in the head as a child.
Oh and now I am an idiot and lack insight and self awareness.
And all for wanting to help others.
I don't think I'm the one who needs to worry about my morals and state of mind going by some of the responses here.
Maybe people are trying to justify and live with the guilt of walking away from situations they could have, or should have, helped with...
You ever carried a large chainsaw on a train? You get serious respect, and a block of 4 seats all to yourself. Funny how several of those who condone this old mans actions are the ones in this thread showing a lack of forum etiquette and getting extremely passionate and angry.
Yet apparently I am a one man vigilante squad bully with sociopathic views, more stupid than Mr Bean, proud of being violent, like to get 'punchy' and should have been kicked in the head as a child.
Oh and now I am an idiot and lack insight and self awareness.
And all for wanting to help others.
I don't think I'm the one who needs to worry about my morals and state of mind going by some of the responses here.
Maybe people are trying to justify and live with the guilt of walking away from situations they could have, or should have, helped with...
Edited by Digby on Monday 1st August 23:29
Digby said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, I do see a punch to the ribs and an armlock as violence. There's a reason for that. Because it IS violence. It IS criminal assault.
Had the old man shook a fist at these misbehaving kids or at an argumentative adult hogging the last chair with their feet etc and the seat was made available as a result, you would also want the person who shook a fist for a second or two reported for common assault, then?Stephens V Myers https://cases.legal/en/act-uk2-18697.html
http://sixthformlaw.info/01_modules/mod3a/3_50_non...
"What is Common Assault?
Common assault is when a person either assaults another person or commits a battery. Assault could be anything from shaking a fist or running a finger across a throat. No force needs to be applied in order for it to be an assault."
https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/threa...
Although I'd argue that with just a fist shake the fist shaker would need to be in reasonable proximity to the potential victim for the victim to believe that it was a real risk. Although words to the effect of 'I'm going to come over & give you a slap' or an advance towards the victim might increase the separation.
http://sixthformlaw.info/01_modules/mod3a/3_50_non...
"What is Common Assault?
Common assault is when a person either assaults another person or commits a battery. Assault could be anything from shaking a fist or running a finger across a throat. No force needs to be applied in order for it to be an assault."
https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/advice/threa...
Although I'd argue that with just a fist shake the fist shaker would need to be in reasonable proximity to the potential victim for the victim to believe that it was a real risk. Although words to the effect of 'I'm going to come over & give you a slap' or an advance towards the victim might increase the separation.
Edited by paintman on Tuesday 2nd August 09:46
Digby said:
Deeply insulted by some text on a screen? Not just insulted, but deeply!
I think the majority of the problems in the world today are born out of such oversensitivity.
Thank you, once again, for confirming your immaturity , lack of regard for others and the law .I think the majority of the problems in the world today are born out of such oversensitivity.
mph1977 said:
.. funnily enough those who actually understand the law related to the use of Force tend to know when to use it and when not to and what is deemed proprtionate in various circumstances ...
Right up to the point teenagers start hanging around outside your front gate night after night and then, after several weeks, get physically dragged away by your fed up neighbour and his friends..Edited by Digby on Tuesday 2nd August 00:01
TooMany2cvs said:
Digby said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, I do see a punch to the ribs and an armlock as violence. There's a reason for that. Because it IS violence. It IS criminal assault.
Had the old man shook a fist at these misbehaving kids or at an argumentative adult hogging the last chair with their feet etc and the seat was made available as a result, you would also want the person who shook a fist for a second or two reported for common assault, then?TooMany2cvs said:
Digby said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, I do see a punch to the ribs and an armlock as violence. There's a reason for that. Because it IS violence. It IS criminal assault.
Had the old man shook a fist at these misbehaving kids or at an argumentative adult hogging the last chair with their feet etc and the seat was made available as a result, you would also want the person who shook a fist for a second or two reported for common assault, then?mph1977 said:
Thank you, once again, for confirming your immaturity , lack of regard for others and the law .
I think it's quite obvious who is being immature in this thread. I would suggest those who are desperately trying to think of something creative to write as a way of insulting me. Gold star for you, then!Lack of regard for others..... by helping others.
As for the law, broken any speed limits lately?
Cat said:
Digby said:
I would applaud someone able to demonstrate all of those activities at once!
Ok, seriously, if like the kids in this original tale they were also misbehaving and being gobby to passengers etc, then whatever else they were doing from your example list would be pretty immaterial. I wouldn't worry if someone stepped in and asked them to pack it in and due to this they subsequently had to stop picking their nose.
The question wasn't about whether you thought it was acceptable for people to ask someone to stop behaving in a particular way. It was about when you thought it was acceptable to use physical force to stop someone doing something legal which you deemed was inappropriate. Ok, seriously, if like the kids in this original tale they were also misbehaving and being gobby to passengers etc, then whatever else they were doing from your example list would be pretty immaterial. I wouldn't worry if someone stepped in and asked them to pack it in and due to this they subsequently had to stop picking their nose.
Cat
janesmith1950 said:
Has it taken 14 pages to work out that the kids were a bit obnoxious and the old man overreacted?
It has taken numerous pages to realise several people here are lying. If they were in the middle of many of the scenarios given and the situations were ended with a shaken fist or a shove, they would be grateful and glad it was all over.Digby said:
Cat said:
I wouldn't report low level idiotic behaviour, I'm not sure why you keep suggesting I would.
You've not answered the question - at what point does it becomes acceptable for you to use physical force to prevent someone from doing something perfectly legal that you feel is "anti social"?
Cat
You don't have to touch someone for it to be an assault. I'm asking if you feel the same way in those situations. Would you be anti-old man if he had just shaken his fist?You've not answered the question - at what point does it becomes acceptable for you to use physical force to prevent someone from doing something perfectly legal that you feel is "anti social"?
Cat
And what happens when you try your proportionate and appropriate physical response and it fails? Let them get on with it, or allow someone to turn things up just a notch to sort the issue?
It becomes acceptable for me to use force (and by force I mean possibly making some form of contact) if the situation dictated contact was required. In other words, if asking politely results in verbal abuse, refusal, or a situation where someone else has to suffer as a result of that anti-social behaviour, or someone were to start shoving me around etc, then I have no problem with it.
That doesn't mean I would be reaching for the Uzi 9mm at that stage; obviously I save that for people who park outside my house.
Digby said:
You don't have to touch someone for it to be an assault. I'm asking if you feel the same way in those situations. Would you be anti-old man if he had just shaken his fist?
I don't think it is acceptable to shake your fist at someone in such a way it would constitute an assault simply because that person is doing something legal that you don't like. This applies even more so if the other person is a child.
Digby said:
And what happens when you try your proportionate and appropriate physical response and it fails? Let them get on with it, or allow someone to turn things up just a notch to sort the issue?
If the situation can't be resolved in a proportionate and legal way I have no desire for someone do something disproportionate and illegal to try and sort it. Cat
Cat said:
I have no desire for someone do something disproportionate and illegal to try and sort it.
Cat
So if a situation you were uncomfortable with, or were a witness to someone else being scared or uncomfortable with a certain situation and that situation was ended with a fist shake, you would rather the situation continued and would report the shaker?Cat
berlintaxi said:
Troll or moron, still can't decide which.
Another name for the list. This may be a record!Apparently, according to this thread, I am now...
A one man vigilante squad bully with sociopathic views, more stupid than Mr Bean, proud of being violent, like to get 'punchy', should have been kicked in the head as a child and am an idiotic and moronic troll who lacks insight and self awareness.
Great name for a band!
Edited by Digby on Tuesday 2nd August 18:04
Digby said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Digby said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, I do see a punch to the ribs and an armlock as violence. There's a reason for that. Because it IS violence. It IS criminal assault.
Had the old man shook a fist at these misbehaving kids or at an argumentative adult hogging the last chair with their feet etc and the seat was made available as a result, you would also want the person who shook a fist for a second or two reported for common assault, then?If he just "shook a fist for a second or two", then there was no assault. It would need to be a LOT more than that, including a very real fear of actual physical violence. And, yes, if I thought that bridge had been crossed, then I would.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_agains...
http://londoncriminalsolicitors.co.uk/violent-crim...
A real lawyer said:
Furthermore, the court has held that common assault does not necessarily have to verbal or physical. Making anonymous phone calls to a particular person and remaining silent, breathing heavily or ominously down the phone can lead to a common assault charge where it has the desired effect of instilling fear and apprehension in the claimant.[1] The mental element of the guilty mind is required for a charge of common assault. As such, the prosecution must evidence to the court that the defendant intended to cause the claimant to be fearful of imminent unlawful violence or to be apprehensive about the same. Common assault can therefore simply be defined as any act which is aimed at intentionally or recklessly causing another person to be apprehensive or fearful of immediate violent attack.
Digby said:
Apparently, according to this thread, I am now...
A one man vigilante squad bully with sociopathic views, more stupid than Mr Bean, proud of being violent, like to get 'punchy', should have been kicked in the head as a child and am an idiotic and moronic troll who lacks insight and self awareness.
We only know you by what you've typed...A one man vigilante squad bully with sociopathic views, more stupid than Mr Bean, proud of being violent, like to get 'punchy', should have been kicked in the head as a child and am an idiotic and moronic troll who lacks insight and self awareness.
TooMany2cvs said:
If he just "shook a fist for a second or two", then there was no assault. It would need to be a LOT more than that, including a very real fear of actual physical violence. And, yes, if I thought that bridge had been crossed, then I would.
An awful lot depends on the bridge, then.
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