Selling a flat, freeholder taking the p**s
Discussion
We are in the process of moving home and selling our flat.
Our buyers solicitors sent a form for the freeholder to fill out which is just a few simple tick boxes and easy to answer questions.
Firstly, it's taken 2 weeks to even acknowledge receipt of the form which we hand delivered, secondly he wants £600 for the pleasure of completing it for us.
It will take him a matter of minutes, but we cannot proceed with our sale until this is done. He is really holding things up for us unnecessarily.
I'll pay it if I have to, but I'm resentful as he's a complete a-hole anyway and now really taking the biscuit on charging us this amount.
It seems to be an unregulated practice, but this needs to be done. Anyone else come across a greedy freeholder and got advice? Is there any way to bypass this process or advice on negotiating this cost?
I don't want to hold things up further and he won't do it until he is paid.
Our buyers solicitors sent a form for the freeholder to fill out which is just a few simple tick boxes and easy to answer questions.
Firstly, it's taken 2 weeks to even acknowledge receipt of the form which we hand delivered, secondly he wants £600 for the pleasure of completing it for us.
It will take him a matter of minutes, but we cannot proceed with our sale until this is done. He is really holding things up for us unnecessarily.
I'll pay it if I have to, but I'm resentful as he's a complete a-hole anyway and now really taking the biscuit on charging us this amount.
It seems to be an unregulated practice, but this needs to be done. Anyone else come across a greedy freeholder and got advice? Is there any way to bypass this process or advice on negotiating this cost?
I don't want to hold things up further and he won't do it until he is paid.
The Surveyor said:
If the Freeholder is being asked to make any meaningful declaration, then it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to run that past their own legal advisor. Legal cost, admin, a little spare for their trouble and £600 doesn't sound excessive.
+1It may seem a lot, but it usually takes a whole lot longer than 'a few minutes' & there is almost always additional information required.
Our solicitor asked our freeholder for confirmation that our groundrent was paid upto date.
They wanted something like £50 to enter into communications with our solicitor and £150 to send out the statement of accounts.
So instead I called the freeholder and asked for a statement to be sent to us, to show our current account status.
Cost = £0
Frustrating and a waste of time for all involved.
They wanted something like £50 to enter into communications with our solicitor and £150 to send out the statement of accounts.
So instead I called the freeholder and asked for a statement to be sent to us, to show our current account status.
Cost = £0
Frustrating and a waste of time for all involved.
Dan_1981 said:
Our solicitor asked our freeholder for confirmation that our groundrent was paid upto date.
This amounts to what is being asked of them and I very much doubt they need to pass it by their solicitors.£600 for ticking a few boxes just seems excessive and in my eyes is daylight robbery. A house move is expensive enough, but I guess there are a fair few hidden expenses.
Quite frankly, I'll be glad to see the back of them so I'll pay it and forget about it. They are a complete chore to deal with and the building is in a state of disrepair. Surely this should be a regulated practice?!
If this is what they are like to deal with now - do you really want them as a freeholder over your property?
We have a similar issue with our freeholder (Fairhold Huddersfield - part of a massive chain of freeholders) and are just sitting tight for the next few months until we can make an offer to buy the freehold outright. Speaking to neighbours, some have had a nightmare with them as there are so many restrictive and prohibitively expensive terms in their leases, albeit they are not in the original lease from the 1960s when the house was built.
We managed to get similar confirmation of ground rent on ours, by finding a unique reference number and applying for an online account with E&M estates who manage it on behalf of Fairhold. Once we created our own online account, we got a record of payments and due dates. 10 minutes work saved us around £400 in their fees.
We have a similar issue with our freeholder (Fairhold Huddersfield - part of a massive chain of freeholders) and are just sitting tight for the next few months until we can make an offer to buy the freehold outright. Speaking to neighbours, some have had a nightmare with them as there are so many restrictive and prohibitively expensive terms in their leases, albeit they are not in the original lease from the 1960s when the house was built.
We managed to get similar confirmation of ground rent on ours, by finding a unique reference number and applying for an online account with E&M estates who manage it on behalf of Fairhold. Once we created our own online account, we got a record of payments and due dates. 10 minutes work saved us around £400 in their fees.
Ken Figenus said:
You should see some of the clauses and declarations you legally have to put your name and neck to to as a freeholder...
Please do share, I am genuinely interested in understanding more about this. I appreciate that there is work involved from our freeholder, but not £600 worth. I will look into obtaining this info myself, but as it is, we have been held up long enough because of this and I really don't want to delay anymore.
I wouldn't mind if it was a couple of hundred, but £600 feels like I am being held to ransom on this.
I was in exactly the same boat last year, free holder & management company (linked but they deny it) waste of space. In the end i just gave up and paid what they asked, yes its a scam but so is lease hold property in general, i will NEVER touch another lease hold again. I cant for the life of me understand why leaseholds don't sell for loads less than free hold, but thats the way it is. Hence 1000's of crappy 2 bed flats going up round here, £130 a month charge on each to cut a bit of grass and clean a hall way and take out a back-hander insurance policy, happy days.
Look on the bright side, soon you will never have to deal with them again. Think of it as divorcing a cheating spouse, its going to cost but its worth it
Look on the bright side, soon you will never have to deal with them again. Think of it as divorcing a cheating spouse, its going to cost but its worth it
nitrodave said:
Please do share, I am genuinely interested in understanding more about this.
I appreciate that there is work involved from our freeholder, but not £600 worth. I will look into obtaining this info myself, but as it is, we have been held up long enough because of this and I really don't want to delay anymore.
I wouldn't mind if it was a couple of hundred, but £600 feels like I am being held to ransom on this.
I got 3 separate A4 envelopes crammed with stuff from a sellers solicitor on one recently. My heart absolutely sank! I refused to sign certain clauses as they were not in my interest or knowledge - could have taken legal advice and added it to the couple of hundred quid I charged them for my time/help I guess... I appreciate that there is work involved from our freeholder, but not £600 worth. I will look into obtaining this info myself, but as it is, we have been held up long enough because of this and I really don't want to delay anymore.
I wouldn't mind if it was a couple of hundred, but £600 feels like I am being held to ransom on this.
I'd be upset at £600 too mind but are you dealing with an individual or a big company? And remember its a legal onerous document - not like signing a birthday card
Ken Figenus said:
nitrodave said:
Please do share, I am genuinely interested in understanding more about this.
I appreciate that there is work involved from our freeholder, but not £600 worth. I will look into obtaining this info myself, but as it is, we have been held up long enough because of this and I really don't want to delay anymore.
I wouldn't mind if it was a couple of hundred, but £600 feels like I am being held to ransom on this.
I got 3 separate A4 envelopes crammed with stuff from a sellers solicitor on one recently. My heart absolutely sank! I refused to sign certain clauses as they were not in my interest or knowledge - could have taken legal advice and added it to the couple of hundred quid I charged them for my time/help I guess... I appreciate that there is work involved from our freeholder, but not £600 worth. I will look into obtaining this info myself, but as it is, we have been held up long enough because of this and I really don't want to delay anymore.
I wouldn't mind if it was a couple of hundred, but £600 feels like I am being held to ransom on this.
I'd be upset at £600 too mind but are you dealing with an individual or a big company? And remember its a legal onerous document - not like signing a birthday card
Sooner it's done the sooner I can move on from it. I'll hopefully be in a freehold house very soon.
Like others have said, I am sick to the teeth with leasing my place. Service charge, insurance, 'maintenance'. Pretty much all house maintenance I can do myself, so pretty hacked off with having to pay someone to weed the 'garden' (some pot plants...) & sweep the car park.
Never again - trouble is, freehold houses are few & far between here & mega expensive....
I still think the OP's £600 fee would not be considered excessive, but must agree that the whole legal industry involved with property sales is a total & utter scam, & not fit for purpose, from the estate agents to the solicitors & 'experts'. My neighbour sold up his leasehold flat - the buyer's solicitor sent through search queries relating to the house 100 yards down the road!!!!
Never again - trouble is, freehold houses are few & far between here & mega expensive....
I still think the OP's £600 fee would not be considered excessive, but must agree that the whole legal industry involved with property sales is a total & utter scam, & not fit for purpose, from the estate agents to the solicitors & 'experts'. My neighbour sold up his leasehold flat - the buyer's solicitor sent through search queries relating to the house 100 yards down the road!!!!
There are two posts on here who seem not to understand the difference between a freeholder and a management company.
I own and rent out a few leasehold houses. I pay ground rent to the freeholder. For that I get nothing in return and nor do I want anything. The ground rent varies from £0.30 to £80 across the portfolio.
If I owned a flat or was on a gated community then I'd have to pay a further service charge to cover the maintenance and general upkeep.
The two are completely different charges, even if paid to the same company they are for different services. If you lived in a building paying both ground rent to the freeholder and a service charge, then you will continue to pay the service charge even if you buy the freehold.
For info, buying the freehold on a flat will make your property effectively unsellable unless all residents form their own management company.
Many areas in the North West are 99% leasehold properties, this makes no difference to the saleability of those houses, or the cost in buying / selling
I own and rent out a few leasehold houses. I pay ground rent to the freeholder. For that I get nothing in return and nor do I want anything. The ground rent varies from £0.30 to £80 across the portfolio.
If I owned a flat or was on a gated community then I'd have to pay a further service charge to cover the maintenance and general upkeep.
The two are completely different charges, even if paid to the same company they are for different services. If you lived in a building paying both ground rent to the freeholder and a service charge, then you will continue to pay the service charge even if you buy the freehold.
For info, buying the freehold on a flat will make your property effectively unsellable unless all residents form their own management company.
Many areas in the North West are 99% leasehold properties, this makes no difference to the saleability of those houses, or the cost in buying / selling
Large company's buy up free holds , they then apoint a management company , they don't look at (in my case) £40'000 free holds and think "ow cool we can buy that for 40k and over the next 100 years we will get back £300 a year!" They buy them to exploit the flaws in the system that allow them to make money other ways! Like commission returned insurance policy's that the leaseholders have to pay! Yes you can have the managment company removed but they will fight tooth and nail to remain . And you have to pay their legal bills along the way 
.
When ours change freeholder, our charges immediately went up 30% in real terms, over night ! Everyone complained and told tough, I googled ours , doesn't make pleasant reading, another dodgy one based in Southend on sea! Why are they all from there
. When ours change freeholder, our charges immediately went up 30% in real terms, over night ! Everyone complained and told tough, I googled ours , doesn't make pleasant reading, another dodgy one based in Southend on sea! Why are they all from there
I am a leaseholder of a flat within a block of six flats, with each leaseholder being a director of the management company.
One of the leaseholder has recently put up for sale his flat, and today I received from his solicitor a letter requesting my replies to their LPE1 enquiries.
Whilst I normally attempt to help my fellow leaseholders, directors etc, however in this situation, both due to not being legally qualified and unsure to the correct answers to some of the enquiry questions, I am reluctant to place myself in a position where I might face legal redress.
How best should I reply to the seller’s solicitor’s enquiries.
One of the leaseholder has recently put up for sale his flat, and today I received from his solicitor a letter requesting my replies to their LPE1 enquiries.
Whilst I normally attempt to help my fellow leaseholders, directors etc, however in this situation, both due to not being legally qualified and unsure to the correct answers to some of the enquiry questions, I am reluctant to place myself in a position where I might face legal redress.
How best should I reply to the seller’s solicitor’s enquiries.
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