Inability to pay at petrol station - credit agreement?
Discussion
La Liga said:
If it's criminal it requires dishonesty. A mistake / forgetting isn't dishonesty. The dishonesty can be formed later i.e. you decide to not bother going back after the mistake.
It can't be theft, it's 'making off without payment'.
Petrol stations want customers in the shop to buy goods that have better margins than the petrol. If people just fill at the pump / pre-pay (and don't return to the shop) they don't make as much profit.
..but CAN be fraud if its ever proved the OP never intended to return and pay having been allowed to leave, or they leave false details with the garageIt can't be theft, it's 'making off without payment'.
Petrol stations want customers in the shop to buy goods that have better margins than the petrol. If people just fill at the pump / pre-pay (and don't return to the shop) they don't make as much profit.
La Liga said:
It overlaps quite a bit with fraud, but the CPS still prefer 'making off' even when there's clear evidence of criminal intent / activity / planning prior to when the 'payment on the spot' is required e.g. false plates on the car.
If we get a series of 'inabilty to pay reports' reported committed by the same driver at different garages - then weve had a number charged with fraudpinchmeimdreamin said:
You said it was happening to you every month, Surely if it's that rife it would have happened to me at least once ?
Yes barely a month goes by without some attempt to take the card out of my view. Most may well be genuine, some however are not. Just watch very closely what some of the smaller garages do with your card. Ask yourself why some of them have the card machine behind the counter, rather than sat out the front where you can just put the card in, then remove it.
Ask yourself why some of these places need you to give them your card and THEY put it into a machine. Why can't I do it? What's the problem?
Added to that is the number of times in smaller garages the payment apparently 'fails' and they have to do it again. This simply doesn't happen in bigger garages, so what's the issue in the smaller ones? Sure, you get a 'transaction cancelled' slip but what's that all about? Have they all got rubbish internet connections, or are these people 'harvesting' something? Is there a hidden camera somewhere that tries to 'capture' the card information? I don't know, but something is not right.
My credit card has had scam attempts multiple times now. Three times in the past year alone. Each time they get spotted by the provider (Capital One), and each time it's within days of one of these 'suspicious incidents' in petrol stations. It's inconvenient because each time it means a new card having to be issued, updating multiple payees with new card details, etc etc.
It's got me close to only using the supermarkets now, it is becoming such a problem. I'm fed up with it.
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
It overlaps quite a bit with fraud, but the CPS still prefer 'making off' even when there's clear evidence of criminal intent / activity / planning prior to when the 'payment on the spot' is required e.g. false plates on the car.
If we get a series of 'inabilty to pay reports' reported committed by the same driver at different garages - then weve had a number charged with fraudzarjaz1991 said:
Yes barely a month goes by without some attempt to take the card out of my view. Most may well be genuine, some however are not.
Just watch very closely what some of the smaller garages do with your card. Ask yourself why some of them have the card machine behind the counter, rather than sat out the front where you can just put the card in, then remove it.
Ask yourself why some of these places need you to give them your card and THEY put it into a machine. Why can't I do it? What's the problem?
Added to that is the number of times in smaller garages the payment apparently 'fails' and they have to do it again. This simply doesn't happen in bigger garages, so what's the issue in the smaller ones? Sure, you get a 'transaction cancelled' slip but what's that all about? Have they all got rubbish internet connections, or are these people 'harvesting' something? Is there a hidden camera somewhere that tries to 'capture' the card information? I don't know, but something is not right.
My credit card has had scam attempts multiple times now. Three times in the past year alone. Each time they get spotted by the provider (Capital One), and each time it's within days of one of these 'suspicious incidents' in petrol stations. It's inconvenient because each time it means a new card having to be issued, updating multiple payees with new card details, etc etc.
It's got me close to only using the supermarkets now, it is becoming such a problem. I'm fed up with it.
If it's happening that often, I'd be checking other security breaches rather than blaming petrol stations.Just watch very closely what some of the smaller garages do with your card. Ask yourself why some of them have the card machine behind the counter, rather than sat out the front where you can just put the card in, then remove it.
Ask yourself why some of these places need you to give them your card and THEY put it into a machine. Why can't I do it? What's the problem?
Added to that is the number of times in smaller garages the payment apparently 'fails' and they have to do it again. This simply doesn't happen in bigger garages, so what's the issue in the smaller ones? Sure, you get a 'transaction cancelled' slip but what's that all about? Have they all got rubbish internet connections, or are these people 'harvesting' something? Is there a hidden camera somewhere that tries to 'capture' the card information? I don't know, but something is not right.
My credit card has had scam attempts multiple times now. Three times in the past year alone. Each time they get spotted by the provider (Capital One), and each time it's within days of one of these 'suspicious incidents' in petrol stations. It's inconvenient because each time it means a new card having to be issued, updating multiple payees with new card details, etc etc.
It's got me close to only using the supermarkets now, it is becoming such a problem. I'm fed up with it.
Many of the big oil companies own the payment terminals even on independent sites, so they'd know if fraud was happening that regularly.
zarjaz1991 said:
I'm not keen on pay at pump because it's a means of putting people out of work. Same with the self scan checkouts in the main supermarket.
Sometimes it's unavoidable, but by choice I'd prefer not to.
We will gradually all put ourselves out of work if we keep blindly accepting all this automation like lemmings.
Yes because you not using them is going to make a difference when the pumps cost 1/5th of a station worker. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but by choice I'd prefer not to.
We will gradually all put ourselves out of work if we keep blindly accepting all this automation like lemmings.
zarjaz1991 said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
But surely, strange logic of your post aside, the people losing their jobs are the "spotty oiks" that you don't want to give your details to and keep allegedly scamming your cards.
It depends on the outlet. There are dodgy 'local' ones, they tend not to have pay at pump, and then there are the big chains and supermarkets, which do often have pay at pump.PH is so black and white. I don't *always* use the same petrol station.
zarjaz1991 said:
About three years ago my local Supermarket petrol station lost their link to the online payment system, they therefore couldn't take my payment for £30 of fuel. The cash machine outside was also affected and I dint have any cash with me.
Three people were stood in the shop, having been told they couldn't leave until the problem was fixed, which would be about an hour. When it came to my turn, and I was rather curtly told the same thing, I said I was leaving anyway and if they weren't happy they should call the police. I said I'd return the next day with the cash, which I did, but I couldn't get over both the attitude of telling people they couldn't leave, and also the blind acceptance of other people that this was ok.
Yeah, I'd do exactly the same! It's all about how they ask...Three people were stood in the shop, having been told they couldn't leave until the problem was fixed, which would be about an hour. When it came to my turn, and I was rather curtly told the same thing, I said I was leaving anyway and if they weren't happy they should call the police. I said I'd return the next day with the cash, which I did, but I couldn't get over both the attitude of telling people they couldn't leave, and also the blind acceptance of other people that this was ok.
AFAIK the garages claim the tax back on drive offs anyway so actual losses are pretty low.
I remember a while back buying some sarnies in one and they insisted on giving me details of a £5 drive off. Reluctantly I took details and realised the RK was around the corner so popped round. Nice chap but absolutely fuming since he had actually paid.
They then called in 5 minutes later as he was in there giving them a b
king about it! 
BTW, for the avoidance of doubt you OP are an absolute laser.
I remember a while back buying some sarnies in one and they insisted on giving me details of a £5 drive off. Reluctantly I took details and realised the RK was around the corner so popped round. Nice chap but absolutely fuming since he had actually paid.
They then called in 5 minutes later as he was in there giving them a b
king about it! BTW, for the avoidance of doubt you OP are an absolute laser.
zarjaz1991 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
You said it was happening to you every month, Surely if it's that rife it would have happened to me at least once ?
Yes barely a month goes by without some attempt to take the card out of my view. Most may well be genuine, some however are not. Just watch very closely what some of the smaller garages do with your card. Ask yourself why some of them have the card machine behind the counter, rather than sat out the front where you can just put the card in, then remove it.
Ask yourself why some of these places need you to give them your card and THEY put it into a machine. Why can't I do it? What's the problem?
Added to that is the number of times in smaller garages the payment apparently 'fails' and they have to do it again. This simply doesn't happen in bigger garages, so what's the issue in the smaller ones? Sure, you get a 'transaction cancelled' slip but what's that all about? Have they all got rubbish internet connections, or are these people 'harvesting' something? Is there a hidden camera somewhere that tries to 'capture' the card information? I don't know, but something is not right.
My credit card has had scam attempts multiple times now. Three times in the past year alone. Each time they get spotted by the provider (Capital One), and each time it's within days of one of these 'suspicious incidents' in petrol stations. It's inconvenient because each time it means a new card having to be issued, updating multiple payees with new card details, etc etc.
It's got me close to only using the supermarkets now, it is becoming such a problem. I'm fed up with it.
98elise said:
zarjaz1991 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
You said it was happening to you every month, Surely if it's that rife it would have happened to me at least once ?
Yes barely a month goes by without some attempt to take the card out of my view. Most may well be genuine, some however are not. Just watch very closely what some of the smaller garages do with your card. Ask yourself why some of them have the card machine behind the counter, rather than sat out the front where you can just put the card in, then remove it.
Ask yourself why some of these places need you to give them your card and THEY put it into a machine. Why can't I do it? What's the problem?
Added to that is the number of times in smaller garages the payment apparently 'fails' and they have to do it again. This simply doesn't happen in bigger garages, so what's the issue in the smaller ones? Sure, you get a 'transaction cancelled' slip but what's that all about? Have they all got rubbish internet connections, or are these people 'harvesting' something? Is there a hidden camera somewhere that tries to 'capture' the card information? I don't know, but something is not right.
My credit card has had scam attempts multiple times now. Three times in the past year alone. Each time they get spotted by the provider (Capital One), and each time it's within days of one of these 'suspicious incidents' in petrol stations. It's inconvenient because each time it means a new card having to be issued, updating multiple payees with new card details, etc etc.
It's got me close to only using the supermarkets now, it is becoming such a problem. I'm fed up with it.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Neither have they mine. How exactly do you type your pin in if its behind the counter?
They hand you the machine. Then they take it back.Sometimes the card is always in sight. Other times it's not. Other way I am suspicious that the aim is to get the card in bried view of a camera. The 3 digit security number on the back can be easily memorised and written down once the user is out the shop.
zarjaz1991 said:
They hand you the machine. Then they take it back.
Sometimes the card is always in sight. Other times it's not. Other way I am suspicious that the aim is to get the card in bried view of a camera. The 3 digit security number on the back can be easily memorised and written down once the user is out the shop.
Out of curiosity do you ever order online using your credit card?Sometimes the card is always in sight. Other times it's not. Other way I am suspicious that the aim is to get the card in bried view of a camera. The 3 digit security number on the back can be easily memorised and written down once the user is out the shop.
Funny thing is I agree that I'm very cautious about who I give my physical card to for the kind of reasons you state, but the basic details, the number, expiry and CVV are present in just about any transaction you make.
zarjaz1991 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Neither have they mine. How exactly do you type your pin in if its behind the counter?
They hand you the machine. Then they take it back.Sometimes the card is always in sight. Other times it's not. Other way I am suspicious that the aim is to get the card in bried view of a camera. The 3 digit security number on the back can be easily memorised and written down once the user is out the shop.
Sheepshanks said:
2Btoo said:
I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
Signed it. Then posted about it on PH.Since June (ish) last year Devon & Cornwall Police don't routinely attend 'bilkings', letting the fuel companies / garages use the Civil remedy unless it is obvious that dishonesty was an integral part of the 'drive off'.
I lost count of all the bilkings we used to get called to, and invariably a knock on the door of the alleged miscreant would be greeted by an embarrassed occupant proffering up his hard-earned, as they had legitimately forgotten to pay.
Of course, there was always the ones who filled up, 'realised' they didn't have the means to pay (on them), argued the toss at the garage and then drove off. As pointed out many times on here, it's ascertaining when the dishonesty was formed in the mind of the miscreant that proved to be a pain....
Nostalgically, this takes me back to my childhood when little old garages had one of those black pneumatic lines that caused a bell to ring when your dad drove over it onto the forecourt, and used to have a little old man that scuttled out, filled your dads tank and cleaned the windscreen, all with no fuss (thinking of one near the seafront in Chapel St Leonard's) and no mention of paying until the service was completed. Those were the days.....
I lost count of all the bilkings we used to get called to, and invariably a knock on the door of the alleged miscreant would be greeted by an embarrassed occupant proffering up his hard-earned, as they had legitimately forgotten to pay.
Of course, there was always the ones who filled up, 'realised' they didn't have the means to pay (on them), argued the toss at the garage and then drove off. As pointed out many times on here, it's ascertaining when the dishonesty was formed in the mind of the miscreant that proved to be a pain....
Nostalgically, this takes me back to my childhood when little old garages had one of those black pneumatic lines that caused a bell to ring when your dad drove over it onto the forecourt, and used to have a little old man that scuttled out, filled your dads tank and cleaned the windscreen, all with no fuss (thinking of one near the seafront in Chapel St Leonard's) and no mention of paying until the service was completed. Those were the days.....
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