Inability to pay at petrol station - credit agreement?
Discussion
shep1001 said:
Done this before myself, fortunately at the local petrol station where I have been going for the last 20 years. They told me If they choose to let you leave with the vehicle, having told them you have no means to pay and you don't return to pay the old bill are not interested in following it up. If they let you leave and you don't pay, having indicated that you would, they are slightly more interested in doing something about it just like if you drove off without paying for the fuel.
I tend to receive 3 or 4 S.172 type requests from the police each week relating to Drive Offs / Bilking for the rental fleet I manage, but there are a few police forces around the country who will offer the keeper details to the garage in order to a pursue a civil claim for losses. snorky782 said:
Pete102 said:
Stupidly filled up and realised my only means of payment was via contactless on my mobile...which of course they wasn't able to accept.
Had no ID on me other than a work access card. I was asked to leave something of value, this wasn't going to happen since the only thing I had was my phone and I was due on a work call in the next 30 minutes. The manager then asked me to write my details down (fine, no problem there) but then asked me to add on the bottom 'I agree to return and pay' since this will form a credit agreement with the petrol station.
I asked if the station was registered with the Financial Conduct Authority to which he replied no. On the basis I responded that it was not a credit agreement and would not hold up as such. I'm not arguing this was not an agreement between myself and the station (although only I signed it) but I do have an issue with it being termed a credit agreement.
I'm assuming the guy felt a little on the back foot here as he then suggested calling the police, again I mentioned that I'm not refusing to pay, I'd left my wallet at home (realising after filling up) and I'd be back that day to settle up - surely this is firmly in the civil side of things rather than criminal?
Opinions welcomed - am I wrong? - Its worth adding this was a small Gulf-affiliated forecourt.
Quoted, purely for when the OP deletes it as it hasn't gone his way. Had no ID on me other than a work access card. I was asked to leave something of value, this wasn't going to happen since the only thing I had was my phone and I was due on a work call in the next 30 minutes. The manager then asked me to write my details down (fine, no problem there) but then asked me to add on the bottom 'I agree to return and pay' since this will form a credit agreement with the petrol station.
I asked if the station was registered with the Financial Conduct Authority to which he replied no. On the basis I responded that it was not a credit agreement and would not hold up as such. I'm not arguing this was not an agreement between myself and the station (although only I signed it) but I do have an issue with it being termed a credit agreement.
I'm assuming the guy felt a little on the back foot here as he then suggested calling the police, again I mentioned that I'm not refusing to pay, I'd left my wallet at home (realising after filling up) and I'd be back that day to settle up - surely this is firmly in the civil side of things rather than criminal?
Opinions welcomed - am I wrong? - Its worth adding this was a small Gulf-affiliated forecourt.
Completely agree with all the comments about the OP being a wally.
mybrainhurts said:
PH Inquisition storms in again at full throttle.
Someone comes here, asking if something is criminal or civil, acknowledging he made a mistake and said something iffy in the heat of the moment.
Question generally ignored and girly bullying manifests itself with gusto.
Nothing changes.
What?!?Someone comes here, asking if something is criminal or civil, acknowledging he made a mistake and said something iffy in the heat of the moment.
Question generally ignored and girly bullying manifests itself with gusto.
Nothing changes.
The guy hadn't the means of paying for his fuel but when the manager agrees that he can pay later if he signs a piece of paper he gets all shirty asking if they are members of the FCA!!
Most people would thank the manager and return to pay asap.
The OP must have known it would get this type of reaction.
shep1001 said:
Done this before myself, fortunately at the local petrol station where I have been going for the last 20 years. They told me If they choose to let you leave with the vehicle, having told them you have no means to pay and you don't return to pay the old bill are not interested in following it up. If they let you leave and you don't pay, having indicated that you would, they are slightly more interested in doing something about it just like if you drove off without paying for the fuel.
Makes sense as you have agreed to pay and your not setting out to permanently deprive them so its not theft. You could pay them in 6 weeks time as its a civil matter.Edited by shep1001 on Thursday 28th July 11:19
GreatGranny said:
mybrainhurts said:
PH Inquisition storms in again at full throttle.
Someone comes here, asking if something is criminal or civil, acknowledging he made a mistake and said something iffy in the heat of the moment.
Question generally ignored and girly bullying manifests itself with gusto.
Nothing changes.
What?!?Someone comes here, asking if something is criminal or civil, acknowledging he made a mistake and said something iffy in the heat of the moment.
Question generally ignored and girly bullying manifests itself with gusto.
Nothing changes.
The guy hadn't the means of paying for his fuel but when the manager agrees that he can pay later if he signs a piece of paper he gets all shirty asking if they are members of the FCA!!
Most people would thank the manager and return to pay asap.
The OP must have known it would get this type of reaction.
Repeat...original question ignored, side issue energetically attacked.
If the OP wants to know the difference between civil and criminal law then it's very simple:
Civil law is contract law
Criminal law is for the protection of people.
So signing the promise to pay = Civil law. All contracts are legally binding regardless od whether the Petrol station is a member of the FCA or not. Asking that question was stupid of the OP because it's not the garages fault he forgot a method of payment. Trying to wriggle out of it will just get you landed with a civil court case, lesser than the one had he just driven off. Theft is criminal against people but civil against organisations but the magistrate can deliver a tougher sentence had the OP just driven away.
There are no laws against asking a stupid question, although PH law says if you do, then you must suffer the consequences!!!
Civil law is contract law
Criminal law is for the protection of people.
So signing the promise to pay = Civil law. All contracts are legally binding regardless od whether the Petrol station is a member of the FCA or not. Asking that question was stupid of the OP because it's not the garages fault he forgot a method of payment. Trying to wriggle out of it will just get you landed with a civil court case, lesser than the one had he just driven off. Theft is criminal against people but civil against organisations but the magistrate can deliver a tougher sentence had the OP just driven away.
There are no laws against asking a stupid question, although PH law says if you do, then you must suffer the consequences!!!
This happened to me once. They presented me with a pre-printed form stating that (and I quote) "I had neither the means nor the intention to pay and that I would not fight any prosecution of me for a sum of up to 100 times the value of the petrol I was stealing", with spaces for me to complete my name and address.
I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
Fermit The Krog and Sarah Sexy said:
The words of the cashier were 'if you leave without paying that's shoplifting and we'll call the police'. My response was along the lines of 'I beg your f
king pardon?!'
Why did you think it was necessary to swear? She hadn't sworn at you, had she?king pardon?!'Or are you one of those unfortunate people who can't express themselves without swearing?.
2Btoo said:
This happened to me once. They presented me with a pre-printed form stating that (and I quote) "I had neither the means nor the intention to pay and that I would not fight any prosecution of me for a sum of up to 100 times the value of the petrol I was stealing", with spaces for me to complete my name and address.
I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
Signed it, it's an unfair contract term that is disproportionate to loss and would not stand up in court. I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
Then gone back and paid.
Sheepshanks said:
Signed it. Then posted about it on PH.
... which is exactly what I did! 
(Although it's taken me over 15 years to do so .... ) Vaud said:
Signed it, it's an unfair contract term that is disproportionate to loss and would not stand up in court.
Then gone back and paid.
That's a better answer, thanks. I'd like to say that I'm smart enough to think of that now but wasn't then, but even that's not quite true! Then gone back and paid.
2Btoo said:
This happened to me once. They presented me with a pre-printed form stating that (and I quote) "I had neither the means nor the intention to pay and that I would not fight any prosecution of me for a sum of up to 100 times the value of the petrol I was stealing", with spaces for me to complete my name and address.
I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
That is probably just to scare you into coming back with the money. I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
I'm not convinced such a clearly unfair contract signed under duress would actually be supported by a court anyway.
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