Inability to pay at petrol station - credit agreement?
Discussion
2Btoo said:
This happened to me once. They presented me with a pre-printed form stating that (and I quote) "I had neither the means nor the intention to pay and that I would not fight any prosecution of me for a sum of up to 100 times the value of the petrol I was stealing", with spaces for me to complete my name and address.
I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
Laughed at them.I crossed out the bit quoted above and filled in my details, drove home and came back 10 minutes later with the necessary cash, but the incident has lodged in my mind as completely absurd. I wonder what other PH'ers would have done in that circumstance?
Innocent mistakes happen. The petrol station has no legal right to detain you.
They can call the police if they like. In the event the police turn and find you walking or driving home to get your wallet / walking to a cashpoint / whatever, it will be clear their is no 'intent' and they will leave you alone.
All this nonsense about detaining people and signing agreements is completely without foundation and only happens because frightened, confused people go along with it, and the petrol stations have no idea how to act legally and professionally in such circumstances. As for leaving children as collateral....complete nonsense. I never cease to be amazed at what the general public can be cowed and intimidated into doing
Here's what you do:
"Hi. Sorry, but I have forgotten my wallet. You have my car reg number. I'm just popping home / to the bank / whatever. I'll come back with the cash within the hour".
Then off you pop. Get the money, come back and pay.
No need to leave your details....you might decide to do so as a courtesy, but I certainly won't have that 'forced' on me, and if they try and insist I'll refuse. They have my car reg, and if I was a crim I'll give false details anyway. Not like they can prove it, especially if you've forgotten your wallet with all your ID in it!
If they threaten to call the police - tell them to go ahead. You have not committed any crime if there was no intent, despite all the "it's an offence" notices plastered around petrol stations. Those notices are technically correct as they state it's an offence to fill up KNOWING you don't have the means to pay, which is different to what's being discussed here.
"Hi. Sorry, but I have forgotten my wallet. You have my car reg number. I'm just popping home / to the bank / whatever. I'll come back with the cash within the hour".
Then off you pop. Get the money, come back and pay.
No need to leave your details....you might decide to do so as a courtesy, but I certainly won't have that 'forced' on me, and if they try and insist I'll refuse. They have my car reg, and if I was a crim I'll give false details anyway. Not like they can prove it, especially if you've forgotten your wallet with all your ID in it!
If they threaten to call the police - tell them to go ahead. You have not committed any crime if there was no intent, despite all the "it's an offence" notices plastered around petrol stations. Those notices are technically correct as they state it's an offence to fill up KNOWING you don't have the means to pay, which is different to what's being discussed here.
zarjaz1991 said:
No need to leave your details....you might decide to do so as a courtesy, but I certainly won't have that 'forced' on me, and if they try and insist I'll refuse.
Yes, f
k the oik working behind the till. The fact they might get sacked for letting someone bugger off without paying is their own fault. Should have got a better job, shouldn't they.caelite said:
You forgot to screech "AM I BEING DETAINED!?!?", at them
How about shouting "GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PENIS" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEsZkTTgydc
Sadly, while I kind of hope that the OP is funny like this, I somehow doubt it..
The staff in many petrol stations are bullied by their employers. Theirs is not a pleasant job and I feel for them. However, the system is at fault. There should be some form of payment security, such as the system of paying by card at the pump that is abhorred by their bosses 'cause it means people don't come in for their overpriced sweets. For those who want to pay by cash, then they can pre-pay. But no.
The law is quite clear on the matter. If you take on fuel and then discover that your card doesn't work or that you've lost/had stolen your wallet then it is a civil debt.
A few years ago any loss was taken out of the pay of staff on duty by some companies, although I believe this has been outlawed, and quite rightly, since.
The law is quite clear on the matter. If you take on fuel and then discover that your card doesn't work or that you've lost/had stolen your wallet then it is a civil debt.
A few years ago any loss was taken out of the pay of staff on duty by some companies, although I believe this has been outlawed, and quite rightly, since.
PorkInsider said:
Yes, f
k the oik working behind the till. The fact they might get sacked for letting someone bugger off without paying is their own fault. Should have got a better job, shouldn't they.The point I'm trying to make is not that you should refuse to give details, but that these places often overstep their authority in a very offhand way.
Having been threatened with the police being called when the issue was THEIR fault, I'm not about to have them throwing their weight around,
As I said, I would leave my details as a courtesy but it doesn't massively matter since I'd be back with the money.
caelite said:
You forgot to screech "AM I BEING DETAINED!?!?", at them
That's a great idea, I'll remember that next time.Sensible cooperation is the way to sort such matters out. Telling people they can't leave when it's the petrol station's problem, as in my anecdote, is not acceptable and I don't care how harassed the employees are. Anyone ever threatens to call the police on me and I simply rise to the challenge.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Does it happen often then ?
Well...errrr....only twice.Once as described in the petrol station, and once in a supermarket when they oddly thought I'd stolen something. They wanted to search me (outside the store as well). I refused. They threatened to call the police, I said go ahead, walked to my car and drove off.
I've done this also - at tesco! Drove to work but forgot my wallet, got to the counter and realised this. Lady behind the counter asked if I had a phone, I replied yes, thinking she wanted the phone as security. She then said, could I ring someone for payment! Surprised me that did. Luckily I know my card number off the top of my head... problem solved!
Derek Smith said:
I was in a Greek restaurant in Brighton, in a group, when a chap on a table near us - they were all near us I suppose - was unable to pay for his meal. I couldn't help overhearing because I was listening. After a quiet chat, his guest refused to pay for it, suggesting that she'd never been so embarrassed before and such. The odd thing was that had she not raised her voice, no one would have known about it.
In the end the bloke asked to speak with the manager who seemed quite laid back about it. He spoke quietly and I couldn't hear him but the agreement was that the bloke would return to his car leaving his g/f there as collateral. The girl then said she wasn't staying. A friend of mine on my table said he'd guarantee the bloke's cost of a meal if he'd give him his details. The girl would have to pay for her own meal. Afterwards he said he'd done it just to keep the entertainment going.
In the end the bloke left, returned less that five minutes later (the restaurant was near a large underground car park). His g/f stood at the door and walked off when he arrived. The manager dealt with the matter just as if it had happened a few times before.
I think the restaurant has been bought out by Germans since then.
In which case the laid back approach will be gone. You'll be 'invited' into a windowless back room. There a sinister looking man in a trench coat and a trilby hat will place matchsticks under your fingernails. If your dinner companion doesn't cough up, he'll set them alight. In the end the bloke asked to speak with the manager who seemed quite laid back about it. He spoke quietly and I couldn't hear him but the agreement was that the bloke would return to his car leaving his g/f there as collateral. The girl then said she wasn't staying. A friend of mine on my table said he'd guarantee the bloke's cost of a meal if he'd give him his details. The girl would have to pay for her own meal. Afterwards he said he'd done it just to keep the entertainment going.
In the end the bloke left, returned less that five minutes later (the restaurant was near a large underground car park). His g/f stood at the door and walked off when he arrived. The manager dealt with the matter just as if it had happened a few times before.
I think the restaurant has been bought out by Germans since then.
As for not having the means to pay for fuel, it happened to me once. I had managed to leave home without my credit card by mistake (the wallet was in a different jacket to the one I was wearing)
I only had some small change in my pocket which wasn't much help. I told the attendant I would return to pay asap. Gave him my registration number and offered to leave left my watch (it looked a lot more expensive than it actually was!) as a sign of good faith which he accepted. Went back later that day and it was sorted without any fuss. I've since always been careful to check that I have my card before leaving the house. 
Pete102 said:
Stupidly filled up and realised my only means of payment was via contactless on my mobile...which of course they wasn't able to accept.
Had no ID on me other than a work access card. I was asked to leave something of value, this wasn't going to happen since the only thing I had was my phone and I was due on a work call in the next 30 minutes. The manager then asked me to write my details down (fine, no problem there) but then asked me to add on the bottom 'I agree to return and pay' since this will form a credit agreement with the petrol station.
I asked if the station was registered with the Financial Conduct Authority to which he replied no. On the basis I responded that it was not a credit agreement and would not hold up as such. I'm not arguing this was not an agreement between myself and the station (although only I signed it) but I do have an issue with it being termed a credit agreement.
I'm assuming the guy felt a little on the back foot here as he then suggested calling the police, again I mentioned that I'm not refusing to pay, I'd left my wallet at home (realising after filling up) and I'd be back that day to settle up - surely this is firmly in the civil side of things rather than criminal?
Opinions welcomed - am I wrong? - Its worth adding this was a small Gulf-affiliated forecourt.
You LaserHad no ID on me other than a work access card. I was asked to leave something of value, this wasn't going to happen since the only thing I had was my phone and I was due on a work call in the next 30 minutes. The manager then asked me to write my details down (fine, no problem there) but then asked me to add on the bottom 'I agree to return and pay' since this will form a credit agreement with the petrol station.
I asked if the station was registered with the Financial Conduct Authority to which he replied no. On the basis I responded that it was not a credit agreement and would not hold up as such. I'm not arguing this was not an agreement between myself and the station (although only I signed it) but I do have an issue with it being termed a credit agreement.
I'm assuming the guy felt a little on the back foot here as he then suggested calling the police, again I mentioned that I'm not refusing to pay, I'd left my wallet at home (realising after filling up) and I'd be back that day to settle up - surely this is firmly in the civil side of things rather than criminal?
Opinions welcomed - am I wrong? - Its worth adding this was a small Gulf-affiliated forecourt.
I did this once in a Shell station and they were nice as pie and produced a standard form and asked me to fill out my details and an assurance to pay, no grief or hassle at all, I filled it out and then returned later that day and paid. There was also an option if you lived miles away to pay a central number by phone for which there was an extra couple of quid charge for admin which all seemed fair enough. I think it I'd been faced by Mr FCA know it all arse bucket then I'd have shrugged and agreed that he was perfectly correct and as such we were unable to extend him credit, we would therefore have to call out the Fuel Doctor misfill people who would recover our fuel, pay us a backhander and invoice him well over hundred quid for the service. Your call.
zarjaz1991 said:
Here's what you do:
"Hi. Sorry, but I have forgotten my wallet. You have my car reg number. I'm just popping home / to the bank / whatever. I'll come back with the cash within the hour".
Then off you pop. Get the money, come back and pay.
No need to leave your details....you might decide to do so as a courtesy, but I certainly won't have that 'forced' on me, and if they try and insist I'll refuse. They have my car reg, and if I was a crim I'll give false details anyway. Not like they can prove it, especially if you've forgotten your wallet with all your ID in it!
If they threaten to call the police - tell them to go ahead. You have not committed any crime if there was no intent, despite all the "it's an offence" notices plastered around petrol stations. Those notices are technically correct as they state it's an offence to fill up KNOWING you don't have the means to pay, which is different to what's being discussed here.
I'm intrigued by the assertion that you don't need to leave your details. You have entered into a contract to buy fuel and wish to return to pay later. I would have thought that you DO need to identify yourself. Stating that they can see a registration number of a car that you happen to be driving isn't equivalent. "Hi. Sorry, but I have forgotten my wallet. You have my car reg number. I'm just popping home / to the bank / whatever. I'll come back with the cash within the hour".
Then off you pop. Get the money, come back and pay.
No need to leave your details....you might decide to do so as a courtesy, but I certainly won't have that 'forced' on me, and if they try and insist I'll refuse. They have my car reg, and if I was a crim I'll give false details anyway. Not like they can prove it, especially if you've forgotten your wallet with all your ID in it!
If they threaten to call the police - tell them to go ahead. You have not committed any crime if there was no intent, despite all the "it's an offence" notices plastered around petrol stations. Those notices are technically correct as they state it's an offence to fill up KNOWING you don't have the means to pay, which is different to what's being discussed here.
I've no idea whether the law requires it, but it's not just courtesy, failure to do so is unreasonable behaviour. Would you let me borrow £50, based on knowing the registration number of a car I am driving?
Edited by OverSteery on Friday 29th July 09:40
OverSteery said:
I'm intrigued by the assertion that you don't need to leave your details. You have entered into a contract to buy fuel and whish to return to pay later. I would have thought that you DO need to identify yourself. Stating that they can see a registration number of a car that you happen to be driving isn't equivalent.
I've no idea idea whether the law requires it, but its not just courtesy, failure to do so is unreasonable behaviour. Would you let me borrow £50, based on know the registration number of a car I am driving?
It's more to do with not letting spotty oiks in petrol stations have my personal details. My credit card has been scammed three times now, and each time the source of it has been a petrol station, they are rife with scammers.I've no idea idea whether the law requires it, but its not just courtesy, failure to do so is unreasonable behaviour. Would you let me borrow £50, based on know the registration number of a car I am driving?
I can't get through a month without one of them trying the "your card isn't working, I just need to take it out the back" trick, which I refuse to allow them to do. The industry is riddled with scummy scammers. So no, they are not getting my home address, date of birth telephone number and then later credit card details to match. If they don't like that they can call the police.
zarjaz1991 said:
It's more to do with not letting spotty oiks in petrol stations have my personal details. My credit card has been scammed three times now, and each time the source of it has been a petrol station, they are rife with scammers.
I can't get through a month without one of them trying the "your card isn't working, I just need to take it out the back" trick, which I refuse to allow them to do. The industry is riddled with scummy scammers. So no, they are not getting my home address, date of birth telephone number and then later credit card details to match. If they don't like that they can call the police.
Crikey, with an attitude like that I'd hate to hear you when something goes wrong and it's NOT your fault! The bottom line is this situation comes about because YOU'VE been a knob and "forgotten" your means to pay. There are three easy solutions, pay there and then as requested, return the goods and leave or give them the details they are asking for so that they can extend a credit facility to you as a courtesy. If you can't do option one and option three is not acceptable to you, then best you call out someone who can safely pump your tank out. It's never a good idea to bite the hands that are trying to help you when you've cocked something up. I can't get through a month without one of them trying the "your card isn't working, I just need to take it out the back" trick, which I refuse to allow them to do. The industry is riddled with scummy scammers. So no, they are not getting my home address, date of birth telephone number and then later credit card details to match. If they don't like that they can call the police.
zarjaz1991 said:
OverSteery said:
I'm intrigued by the assertion that you don't need to leave your details. You have entered into a contract to buy fuel and whish to return to pay later. I would have thought that you DO need to identify yourself. Stating that they can see a registration number of a car that you happen to be driving isn't equivalent.
I've no idea idea whether the law requires it, but its not just courtesy, failure to do so is unreasonable behaviour. Would you let me borrow £50, based on know the registration number of a car I am driving?
It's more to do with not letting spotty oiks in petrol stations have my personal details. My credit card has been scammed three times now, and each time the source of it has been a petrol station, they are rife with scammers.I've no idea idea whether the law requires it, but its not just courtesy, failure to do so is unreasonable behaviour. Would you let me borrow £50, based on know the registration number of a car I am driving?
I can't get through a month without one of them trying the "your card isn't working, I just need to take it out the back" trick, which I refuse to allow them to do. The industry is riddled with scummy scammers. So no, they are not getting my home address, date of birth telephone number and then later credit card details to match. If they don't like that they can call the police.
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