suing garage/owner for faulty work
Discussion
Hi all
I'd appreciate any advice on this please. I had an engine rebuilt at Garage A - which was needed due to a cracked piston. I elected to go for forged internals and uprated bearings, gaskets, head studs and other bits and pieces. Garage owner (who was a recommended 'specialist' on this type of car) took 9 months to get the car back to me - excuse and delay after excuse and delay. finally i did get it back (£6k later) and ran it in gently for 1200 miles and changed the oil etc. sadly after a further 800 miles, the head gasket went.
He'd sold his garage about 5 month before completing the work for me, though he continues to work in the area. he and his wife were partners in the original business.
now the people who bought his garage are still fixing cars.
i arranged to have the car taken to another Garage - i really didn't want to give it back to Garage A's owner, given the history and that he'd now sold up. he was in contact after I told him what happened, to say he'd been working on these cars 20+ years and had never heard of a gasket going after having the work done that I had. he 'suspected' a cracked or warped head.
Garage B (who now has the car) found the head studs were all sitting at different heights (they have pictures to prove) and 3 of them felt loose. now thankfully, the heads are not warped or cracked, it turns out it's worse than studs just not being tightened enough, as when they removed them, the threads from 2 of them pulled right out of the block. they suspect they were cross threaded initially. so now it needs a new block, new studs, new gaskets and a load of labour.
i contacted the original chap, to let him know what they said and to ask him what he was going to do about it. he told me that he had said he'd personally built the short engine, and 'he didn't lie', but that didn't include the cylinder head or studs. i pointed out that the poor work was still done by one of his team and that before he started telling me it was something Garage B had done wrong (he'd slated them when he heard I'd taken it to them), could he explain why my head gasket had gone so soon after a full rebuild?
he's now ignoring all communication.
it's been suggested i sue him to get my £6k back, as the engine rebuild wasn't fit for purpose. personally, i'd be 'happy' if he'd pay the costs of getting it fixed now - so i'd like to know how best to go about it and what my chances of success are. was thinking of using small claims, as i can get a report from Garage B, with photos etc, which should prove the original work was poor and the cause of the failure. do i sue him personally? does the place who bought his garage have any responsibility (as the car was left there and he finished work on it after the business was sold)?
many thanks for suggestions.
I'd appreciate any advice on this please. I had an engine rebuilt at Garage A - which was needed due to a cracked piston. I elected to go for forged internals and uprated bearings, gaskets, head studs and other bits and pieces. Garage owner (who was a recommended 'specialist' on this type of car) took 9 months to get the car back to me - excuse and delay after excuse and delay. finally i did get it back (£6k later) and ran it in gently for 1200 miles and changed the oil etc. sadly after a further 800 miles, the head gasket went.
He'd sold his garage about 5 month before completing the work for me, though he continues to work in the area. he and his wife were partners in the original business.
now the people who bought his garage are still fixing cars.
i arranged to have the car taken to another Garage - i really didn't want to give it back to Garage A's owner, given the history and that he'd now sold up. he was in contact after I told him what happened, to say he'd been working on these cars 20+ years and had never heard of a gasket going after having the work done that I had. he 'suspected' a cracked or warped head.
Garage B (who now has the car) found the head studs were all sitting at different heights (they have pictures to prove) and 3 of them felt loose. now thankfully, the heads are not warped or cracked, it turns out it's worse than studs just not being tightened enough, as when they removed them, the threads from 2 of them pulled right out of the block. they suspect they were cross threaded initially. so now it needs a new block, new studs, new gaskets and a load of labour.
i contacted the original chap, to let him know what they said and to ask him what he was going to do about it. he told me that he had said he'd personally built the short engine, and 'he didn't lie', but that didn't include the cylinder head or studs. i pointed out that the poor work was still done by one of his team and that before he started telling me it was something Garage B had done wrong (he'd slated them when he heard I'd taken it to them), could he explain why my head gasket had gone so soon after a full rebuild?
he's now ignoring all communication.
it's been suggested i sue him to get my £6k back, as the engine rebuild wasn't fit for purpose. personally, i'd be 'happy' if he'd pay the costs of getting it fixed now - so i'd like to know how best to go about it and what my chances of success are. was thinking of using small claims, as i can get a report from Garage B, with photos etc, which should prove the original work was poor and the cause of the failure. do i sue him personally? does the place who bought his garage have any responsibility (as the car was left there and he finished work on it after the business was sold)?
many thanks for suggestions.
It is not clear, you say the garage changed hands while they had your car. Did garage A (under new ownership) finish the job and return the car or did the original owner finish it himself (at some other premises??)?
btw. does it really need a new block? Can the existing block not be helicoiled?
btw. does it really need a new block? Can the existing block not be helicoiled?
brman said:
It is not clear, you say the garage changed hands while they had your car. Did garage A (under new ownership) finish the job and return the car or did the original owner finish it himself (at some other premises??)?
btw. does it really need a new block? Can the existing block not be helicoiled?
btw. does it really need a new block? Can the existing block not be helicoiled?
thanks - Previous owner of Garage A finished the work by popping in on a weekend etc. sounded like he did everything himself when i was talking to him, but as he said now, he just did the short engine. the car was still at Garage A until I picked it up, so if someone else did the studs etc, it was someone there.
Garage B says helicoiling not advised on engine blocks by the company they use. ? not strong enough long term?
I saw your post on Scoobynet. It really does suck that you've been put through this.
9 months and £6k would both be unreasonable, but put them together and he's really taken the piss.
I don't get the popping in on weekends thing. That just sounds absolutely bizarre? Why on earth would he/they do such a thing after the sale?
I do wish you the best of luck with this.
9 months and £6k would both be unreasonable, but put them together and he's really taken the piss.
I don't get the popping in on weekends thing. That just sounds absolutely bizarre? Why on earth would he/they do such a thing after the sale?
I do wish you the best of luck with this.
SpydieNut said:
He'd sold his garage about 5 month before completing the work for me, though he continues to work in the area. he and his wife were partners in the original business.
now the people who bought his garage are still fixing cars.
it's been suggested i sue him to get my £6k back, as the engine rebuild wasn't fit for purpose
You really need to figure out the finer detail of the garage's legal structure.now the people who bought his garage are still fixing cars.
it's been suggested i sue him to get my £6k back, as the engine rebuild wasn't fit for purpose
Is the garage a limited company?
If so, is it still the same limited company as it was, with just the shareholders having changed?
TooMany2cvs said:
You really need to figure out the finer detail of the garage's legal structure.
Is the garage a limited company?
If so, is it still the same limited company as it was, with just the shareholders having changed?
I agree. Plus you need the details on who/when the work was done.Is the garage a limited company?
If so, is it still the same limited company as it was, with just the shareholders having changed?
If the guy was popping back at the weekend to do it then no surprise it took a long time. But then why didn't he finish the job and who organised for the head etc to be put on if he did not do it?
Also, at the end of the day, who did you actually pay? And was it paid when you got the car back? If so, I am guessing it is that person/company that you need to be going after to sort it out regardless of who did the actual spannering?
SpydieNut said:
thanks - i will try. will have to phone the new owners and ask, as the original owner is not getting back to me. it was the original owner i paid - by bank transfer, a week or so after i collected the car.
i do know that the garage is now run under a new name.
I suspect then that your contract is with the previous owner direct (and not the sold company). Definitely not the new owners of the garage if they are running it under a new name.i do know that the garage is now run under a new name.
Could be wrong though.....
SpydieNut said:
thanks - i will try. will have to phone the new owners and ask, as the original owner is not getting back to me. it was the original owner i paid - by bank transfer, a week or so after i collected the car.
i do know that the garage is now run under a new name.
Go find the invoice.i do know that the garage is now run under a new name.
What does it say about who issued it?
If the garage was run as a sole trader (or partnership) by the guy, then your contract was with him personally, and the new owner of the garage is irrelevant.
If the garage was run as a a limited company, and the same limited company is still running it but with new owners, then your contract was with the limited company, and the old owner is irrelevant.
It the garage was run as a limited company, and that limited company was closed down, then you have no comeback, because the legal entity your contract was with no longer exists.
Also - you give mileages, but no times - other than it's (well?) over five months since it was all completed. When was it done?
A tricky one as I would normally say that you should have taken back to garage as first the same as if you had bought a used car but with the ownership change it becomes difficult. I would think there is a strong case for at least at partial refund to cover the work now needed. Certainly puts me off having major works done, had even spoken to a subaru specialist about what could be done to a 2016my car to make it more fun but maybe not now...
ok - thank you
it looks like a Ltd company, so i may well be out of luck. the business name is XXX Ltd. it has business reg and VAT reg number, registered address etc. i've also looked on companies house now and the company is still listed as active (at the old address) and as a private limited company. the google ad though has 'permanently closed down', so maybe the companies website just hasn't been updated yet? he also ran under a different name from 89-02.
the chap and his wife were directors.
i first took the car into him about July 15. the work was finished at the end of April 16. the head gasket went almost exactly 2 months later.
the bank transfer was to the company account.
it looks like a Ltd company, so i may well be out of luck. the business name is XXX Ltd. it has business reg and VAT reg number, registered address etc. i've also looked on companies house now and the company is still listed as active (at the old address) and as a private limited company. the google ad though has 'permanently closed down', so maybe the companies website just hasn't been updated yet? he also ran under a different name from 89-02.
the chap and his wife were directors.
i first took the car into him about July 15. the work was finished at the end of April 16. the head gasket went almost exactly 2 months later.
the bank transfer was to the company account.
SpydieNut said:
it looks like a Ltd company, so i may well be out of luck. the business name is XXX Ltd. it has business reg and VAT reg number, registered address etc. i've also looked on companies house now and the company is still listed as active (at the old address) and as a private limited company.
the chap and his wife were directors.
And still are?the chap and his wife were directors.
If so, then great. There's your target.
Sorry to hear of your troubles - I'm guessing this is a mechanic in the north west?
If so, I've heard of similar woes, and worse, including using (and I can't believe I'm writing this) second hand valves and pre-enjoyed main bearings/shells in builds.
I can also recommend Adgespeed in Irlam Manchester who I've had good experience with, Adge (Adrian) himself is a proper enthusiast and is a bit of a talker, but the work I had done was completed on time and at an agreed price. Very happy.
If so, I've heard of similar woes, and worse, including using (and I can't believe I'm writing this) second hand valves and pre-enjoyed main bearings/shells in builds.
I can also recommend Adgespeed in Irlam Manchester who I've had good experience with, Adge (Adrian) himself is a proper enthusiast and is a bit of a talker, but the work I had done was completed on time and at an agreed price. Very happy.
TooMany2cvs said:
SpydieNut said:
it looks like a Ltd company, so i may well be out of luck. the business name is XXX Ltd. it has business reg and VAT reg number, registered address etc. i've also looked on companies house now and the company is still listed as active (at the old address) and as a private limited company.
the chap and his wife were directors.
And still are?the chap and his wife were directors.
If so, then great. There's your target.
I think you need proper legal advice over this particually as another garage has taken it to pieces.
POORCARDEALER said:
TooMany2cvs said:
SpydieNut said:
it looks like a Ltd company, so i may well be out of luck. the business name is XXX Ltd. it has business reg and VAT reg number, registered address etc. i've also looked on companies house now and the company is still listed as active (at the old address) and as a private limited company.
the chap and his wife were directors.
And still are?the chap and his wife were directors.
If so, then great. There's your target.
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