M4 HEDACS Smart motorway cameras now being used for 70 limit
Discussion
Pete317 said:
The reason I asked is that, despite looking very long and hard, I haven't managed to find anything definitive.
The highways England are judged on network flow and occupation, so,they wouldn't spend 2 billion on this scheme if it reduced flow and journey times. They are wasteful but not that's bad. We could only close some sections in very specific days and periods based on historic data. If they saw a massive drop in any figures they would cancel closures to keep things flowing.surveyor_101 said:
Results of study
In 2007 it was estimated that ATM could be introduced within two years at a cost of around £5-15 million per mile[39] as opposed to 10 years and £79 million per mile for widening.[40][41]
The M42 scheme was initially run as an experiment and a Highways Agency report into the first six months of the scheme showed a reduction in variability journey times of up to 27%.[5][6] The journey time statistics can be broken down to show that northbound journey times were reduced by 26%, equating to an average reduction of 4 minute as compared to the period when the variable speed limits were on but the hard shoulder was not being used and 9% southbound (equating to 1 minute) during the afternoon rush hour.[42] The report also indicated a fall in the number of accidents from over 5 a month to 1.5 per month on average.[5][6] The Agency did state that normally accident statistics should be compared over a 3-year period, so the initial results should be treated with caution. They also stated that no accidents had been caused by hard shoulder use as a normal lane.[42] The report also stated that there had been a 10% fall in pollution and 4% fall in fuel consumption.[5] The report also indicated a compliance rate of 98% to the indicated speed limits when using the hard shoulder.[42] For comparison before the introduction of mandatory speed limits at road works, the compliance rate was 10% as opposed to 89% afterwards, showing a similar effect.[43]
The benefit of hard shoulder running is obvious, as adding an extra lane very significantly increases capacity.In 2007 it was estimated that ATM could be introduced within two years at a cost of around £5-15 million per mile[39] as opposed to 10 years and £79 million per mile for widening.[40][41]
The M42 scheme was initially run as an experiment and a Highways Agency report into the first six months of the scheme showed a reduction in variability journey times of up to 27%.[5][6] The journey time statistics can be broken down to show that northbound journey times were reduced by 26%, equating to an average reduction of 4 minute as compared to the period when the variable speed limits were on but the hard shoulder was not being used and 9% southbound (equating to 1 minute) during the afternoon rush hour.[42] The report also indicated a fall in the number of accidents from over 5 a month to 1.5 per month on average.[5][6] The Agency did state that normally accident statistics should be compared over a 3-year period, so the initial results should be treated with caution. They also stated that no accidents had been caused by hard shoulder use as a normal lane.[42] The report also stated that there had been a 10% fall in pollution and 4% fall in fuel consumption.[5] The report also indicated a compliance rate of 98% to the indicated speed limits when using the hard shoulder.[42] For comparison before the introduction of mandatory speed limits at road works, the compliance rate was 10% as opposed to 89% afterwards, showing a similar effect.[43]
In contrast, the benefits of VSL are not at all clear.
surveyor_101 said:
Pete317 said:
The reason I asked is that, despite looking very long and hard, I haven't managed to find anything definitive.
The highways England are judged on network flow and occupation, so,they wouldn't spend 2 billion on this scheme if it reduced flow and journey times. They are wasteful but not that's bad. We could only close some sections in very specific days and periods based on historic data. If they saw a massive drop in any figures they would cancel closures to keep things flowing.Pete317 said:
Perhaps, but why is documentation on the subject so thin on the ground?
Look Pete It's been two years since I was involved in highways agency England.
I am not an advocate for these roads as I hate speed cameras as they are so blunt and don't make up for a lack of police.
If you want hard data write to highways England and I expect some data geek will be only two pleasesd to send you hard data. Since that's what most of their staff do collect mostly useless data. I had to do a long breakdown of costs on each job into a ha format which I assumed was being used to create accurate budgets for future works.
Silly me they just had a team who liked collecting the data to do absolutely sweet fa with it just liked kicking up if it's want all filled in the way they wanted, so they could file it in a data black hole. They call it activity bench marking which is done at final account of projects. In 8 years know one in the he had got around to making use of the data to you know benchmark works!,,,,,,,
The budgets were based on figures in the air, as it turned out.
The project sponsors were not civil engineers or surveyors, or did they have any qualifications that were relevant in most cases. They were glorified administrators who could sign of and multi million pound project estimates if I could convince them it's was good value.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:55
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:57
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 22:00
surveyor_101 said:
Pete317 said:
Perhaps, but why is documentation on the subject so thin on the ground?
Look Pete It's been two years since I was involved in highways agency England.
I am not an advocate for these roads as I hate speed cameras as they are so blunt and don't make up for a lack of police.
If you want hard data write to highways England and I expect some data geek will be only two pleasesd to send you hard data. Since that's what most of their staff do collect mostly useless data. I had to do a long breakdown of costs on each job into a ha format which I assumed was being used to create accurate budgets for future works.
Silly me they just had a team who liked collecting the data to do absolutely sweet fa with it just liked kicking up if it's want all filled in the way they wanted, so they could file it in a data black hole.
The budgets were based on figures in the air,p, as it turned out.
The project sponsors were Nora civil engineers or surveyors. They were glorified administrators who cruel sign of and multi million pound project estimates.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Monday 8th August 21:55
Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
At least, that's the way this engineer sees it.
Pete317 said:
That's not really what I'm after.
Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I worked on drainage pinch point schemes mainly on m5 and trunk roads had nothing to do with smart role out other than one meeting on it.Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on.
I am told two HETOs and a disco cots £500k year to keep on thenetwork!,,,
Pete317 said:
That's not really what I'm after.
Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I worked on drainage and pinch point schemes mainly on m5 and trunk roads had nothing to do with smart role out other than one day meeting on it, we're it's was explained to us.Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on. I worked for an ASC contractor not ha direct.
I am told two HETOs and a car cost the tax payer £500k year to run. That was by so,one senior in southwest ha who thought they were a joke.
surveyor_101 said:
Pete317 said:
That's not really what I'm after.
Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I worked on drainage pinch point schemes mainly on m5 and trunk roads had nothing to do with smart role out other than one meeting on it.Surely they must have had something to start with in order to justify spending billions on something which may or may not work.
I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on.
I am told two HETOs and a disco cots £500k year to keep on thenetwork!,,,
I think the reality will be as more and more of our Motorway network becomes 'managed/smart' motorway, then you'd have to be an idiot to not expect them (now they have the tech and means to do it) to enforce the speed limit. Yes even the 70 mph one.
I don't like it, and i'm pretty sure no one else here on PH will either, that won't stop it from happening though.
I fully expect in the not too distant future to see lots of 'OMG I got done doing 75 on the motorway!' threads.
Our free range days are over, at least we had fun before that happened unlike our kids, who probably won't even be able to drive if the car self driving thing comes to fruition.
I don't like it, and i'm pretty sure no one else here on PH will either, that won't stop it from happening though.
I fully expect in the not too distant future to see lots of 'OMG I got done doing 75 on the motorway!' threads.
Our free range days are over, at least we had fun before that happened unlike our kids, who probably won't even be able to drive if the car self driving thing comes to fruition.
surveyor_101 said:
I worked on drainage pinch point schemes mainly on m5 and trunk roads had nothing to do with smart role out other than one meeting on it.
I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on.
I am told two HETOs and a disco cots £500k year to keep on thenetwork!,,,
so compared to the usual PH contributors 'an authority on HADECS3 and speed enforcement' I got fed up with the waste and form box ticking rather than surveying the works! He should stop data crunching and look,at what they are spending our money on.
I am told two HETOs and a disco cots £500k year to keep on thenetwork!,,,
Huff said:
That section of the M4-M5 managed area is locally and expressly well-known for camera enforcement of the 70mph limit when the signs are OFF. See many old posts in the PH SouthWest area of the forum.
True. A lot of the guys i work with from outside the SW started getting hit by these last year. Try and tell a lot of people though, and they won't believe it. On another recent thread my warning was called "bulls
t" and i was loosely referred to as "fking sad"Oh well.
techguyone said:
I think the reality will be as more and more of our Motorway network becomes 'managed/smart' motorway, then you'd have to be an idiot to not expect them (now they have the tech and means to do it) to enforce the speed limit. Yes even the 70 mph one.
I don't like it, and i'm pretty sure no one else here on PH will either, that won't stop it from happening though.
I fully expect in the not too distant future to see lots of 'OMG I got done doing 75 on the motorway!' threads.
Our free range days are over, at least we had fun before that happened unlike our kids, who probably won't even be able to drive if the car self driving thing comes to fruition.
Burn them?I don't like it, and i'm pretty sure no one else here on PH will either, that won't stop it from happening though.
I fully expect in the not too distant future to see lots of 'OMG I got done doing 75 on the motorway!' threads.
Our free range days are over, at least we had fun before that happened unlike our kids, who probably won't even be able to drive if the car self driving thing comes to fruition.
TX.
tapereel said:
so compared to the usual PH contributors 'an authority on HADECS3 and speed enforcement'
I did in a thread some years ago,, whilst working for HE that they would not be used for NSL. I had also been up m5/m4 whilst not working and in a tm marked car driven at 80 ish through these and not received a ticket.Since then I don't tend to go that fast much and most of the time going Bristol say they are set to 60mph!
The rational was that old matrix signs still in use on some sections to warn and slow traffic were largely ineffective.
Pete317 said:
Another question about VSL to which I've never gotten a satisfactory answer: if the purpose is to aid traffic flow on the motorway then why do they have VSL signs, complete with cameras and markings, on the exit slip roads?
The only ones I’ve seen on slip roads are adjacent to gantries on the main carriageway. Seeing as the slip road is still part of the Motorway, I would think it’s a legal obligation surveyor_101 said:
mygoldfishbowl said:
Post it up.
See if I can, since it's company and not my ticket might not be able to get. The member of staff who deals wth the. Gets funny if anyone knows about these sort of things coming in, before he chooses to tell me!Why would I lie, not benefit just thought I would confirm what many feared.
samj2014 said:
Is this happening on any other motorways? The M1 and M6 still don't seem to enforce NSL, I'd have had a few tickets few my door recently otherwise...
I have no background but anecdotally the cameras around J5 - J7 on the M20 do trip for infringements of the NSL when signs are not illuminated.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff