Hosting an outdoor concert in gale force winds.

Hosting an outdoor concert in gale force winds.

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Driver101

Original Poster:

14,376 posts

120 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Not sure if anyone else had the misery of attending Bryan Adams at Montrose on Sunday evening?

Basically Scotland was being battered by gale force winds and about the only thing that somehow managed to survive the weather was this concert.

The venue opened at 6pm, but on health and safety grounds all tents were closed. There was no beer and people had paid additionally for a VIP bar and section. There was various temporary structures including the sound tent and the camera man's gantry was dead centre in the crowd. There was the large stage too.

Due to the gale force winds the PA system and TV screens were lowered.

At 8pm the concert still went ahead. There was loads of people posting on social media about not being able to hear and complaining about the bars. At 8.30pm they bowed to the pressure and opened the bars even though the winds were getting stronger. They promised the sound would improve and the winds would get weaker. None of the two happened.

There was 12,000 people in the field and you genuinely couldn't make out much if you weren't at the front. The PA system looked very small for a gig this size, but doubled up with the speakers being lowered to the deck and gale force winds blowing the rest of the sound diagonally backwards, people in the crowd couldn't hear at all. If you weren't there you wouldn't believe just how bad it was.

The company who hosted the event are in complete denial. They deleted all the complaints from the social media pages. It reads as if everyone had a great night when that wasn't the case at all.

The people who did raise issues were all attacked as if they were in the wrong. Apparently they should accept gale force winds and be happy Bryan Adams came to Montrose. It was their fault for not squeezing to the front row, ignoring there was 12,000 other people.

Thousands of people left early.

I raised the issue with Ticketmaster but they don't want to know. They are just a company who secure tickets and no more they tell me.

So how did this concert manage to get the go ahead in gale force winds and should we all have grounds for a refund?

I fully accept that an outdoor gig is at the risk of bad weather, but gale force winds that close many parts of the arena for most of the night and reduce the sound so much that people can't hear surely can't be deemed acceptable?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Driver101 said:
So how did this concert manage to get the go ahead in gale force winds
The organisers would have taken the decision to go ahead and, if it had been proved the wrong one because of injuries or worse, would likely have had to defend their decision in court. As it was, nothing bad happened - it just didn't quite go to plan.

Driver101 said:
and should we all have grounds for a refund?


You'd need to read the ticket Ts & Cs very carefully. If they're not willing to give one voluntarily, you can either take them to court for the ticket price (but almost certainly not losses arising) or you can just shrug and swear blind they'll never see another penny of your money ever again...

Driver101 said:
I fully accept that an outdoor gig is at the risk of bad weather, but gale force winds that close many parts of the arena for most of the night and reduce the sound so much that people can't hear surely can't be deemed acceptable?
Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they'd cancelled it, they'd probably have had just as many complaints.

58warren

589 posts

178 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
I was there - about 30 metres from the stage and although it was gusty, the weather stayed dry and it was a sunny evening.

The speakers were occasionally overcome by strong wind so the sound would fade briefly now and then, but all in all I thought it was a really good concert. There was plenty of space towards the front if people had wanted to move forwards a bit.

I thoroughly enjoyed the evening,

Driver101

Original Poster:

14,376 posts

120 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
I think everyone was expecting it to be called off after the events of Sunday. It appeared to be a very easy decision to make. I know people would be upset, but I think most people would understand it would be the sensible decision in the circumstances. They forecast was known days in advance and the winds were going long before people had to travel.

We tried to stand at a few locations and genuinely couldn't get a spot to hear at all. There maybe was pockets of space towards the front, but it was pretty packed from anywhere we were and we couldn't move forward or see these pockets of space. A few of the people with us aren't the most comfortable at squeezing to the front,however they shouldn't have to do so. The gig was at capacity was it not? It was a 12,000 ticket event if I've read correctly?

The ticket mentions about not being liable for reduced entertainment levels, or something close to that effect. There's a big difference between reduced entertainment levels and not hearing any sound at all.

I can see the license granted to T in the Park this year with the restrictions for continuation in adverse conditions. The wind speeds predicted were 60mph. TITP has to shut everything down at 56mph. Even at the lower grade working at height and the sides of the stages have to be opened. None of this happened at Montrose.

The organisers were saying the winds were dying when they were clearly getting stronger.




Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 9th August 15:20


Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 9th August 15:30

Corpulent Tosser

5,459 posts

244 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
I have heard from people I know who live in/around Montrose that music festivals are good in Montrose and decent artists attracted to the festivals.
The danger with cancelling the event is the potential for increased insurance premiums for the organisers or non payment for the artists, the result being that future festivals will be either not feasible or lesser artists attracted, also pissing off the people who planned to attend.

So it may be the organisers did their utmost to ensure the event went ahead, it is of course annoying that the event was not as enjoyable as you had hoped but as no-one was hurt and no equipment damaged it was probably the correct decision.


Tom_C76

1,923 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
With regard to opening the sides of the stage at a given wind speed, that will come from the design of the stage structure itself, how it is fixed down or ballasted etc. Similarly closing the bar tents will be due to set wind speeds for the use of the tents. Unless the wind had genuinely dropped the licensing authority would take a very dim view on opening the bars.

We do a lot of temp structures design and there will be a site specific wind plan and an on site wind speed monitor in use. For one where we used to design a temporary stage, the first trigger speed called for the speakers and rear sheet to be dropped, the second (higher) to close down and evacuate. Closing and evacuating brings its own issues in terms of crowd control and safety too.

In terms of refund, it sounds like your only hope would be to test the "reduced enjoyment" clause in court. Maybe you'll find an ambulance chaser to take it on a no win - no fee deal, but I doubt it.

Driver101

Original Poster:

14,376 posts

120 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
I'm a huge gig goer and regularly go to outdoor gigs and festivals. I was at Belladrum the 3 days before, will be at Biffy Clyro at Bellahouston Park and Party at the Palace in the next few weeks. I'm used to what to expect and happy to stand in the pissing rain and take a beating. It's luck of the draw but you can prepare yourself for the rain.

I just think gale force winds and genuinely not being able to hear anything from the majority of the venue is way beyond acceptable.

It didn't come on unexpectedly, it was predicted in the long term forecast, and the winds were high from 18 hours before the gig.

Ticketmaster say they will forward an email address for someone to contact directly. I was reading the comments of others and it does appear refunds are not going to be offered, including the VIP bar tickets that were £20 over and above the £50 ticket price each plus all fees, even though it was closed the majority of the night.

It appears the line they are getting taken down the guilt trip route. They were made to feel bad as the organising committee work for free and the event makes no profit.

12,000 tickets at £50 each, VIP top ups at £20 each, £5 a drink once the bars opened and various food vans and they aren't making anything out of it?

There wasn't any support act either which we did know in advance.


The winds didn't drop at all. They were clearly getting stronger as the night went on.

Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 9th August 16:57

BlueHave

4,636 posts

107 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Remember everything they did, they did it for you.

Its not worth fighting for

GCH

3,984 posts

201 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
That decision would have been taken for safety reasons. Any idea how much a stage line array weighs, or even part of one?
Trust me, you do not want that coming loose in the wind - ditto for any aspect of the staging.

Sound levels were probably quite low already due to the usual draconian restrictions, compounded by the wind. There are shows where you can hear the crowd over the system, all because there is a council gimp in a hi-viz with a db meter half a mile away downwind who says it is too loud, so down it goes.
Not a lot you can do I am afraid.


Edited by GCH on Sunday 2nd October 20:18

ikarl

3,730 posts

198 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Did you pay by credit card? Not sure if that's an option available..

Chrisgr31

13,440 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
The organisers are in an extremely difficult position, they would no doubt have been criticised had they cancelled, they went ahead and are still criticised.

As they went ahead they wont want to give any refunds as they wont be able to claim on their insurance.

Wacky Racer

38,099 posts

246 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
These things happen. Deal with it.

I went to The Buxton Pop festival in 1973, with Chuck Berry, Nazareth, The Edger Broughton Band and more.

It was 1500ft up on the windswept moors above Buxton, the rain was sheeting down, mud was nearly up to your knees and the Hells Angels started a mud fight pelting EVERYONE with wet mud, even the artists on stage.

It was great fun.

Also the 1975 Reading festival with wishbone Ash, festival goers had to put up with HUNDREDS of sometimes half full beer cans being thrown from the back, at least two hit me on the back of my head....grumpy

Not so great fun.....biggrin

Festivals eh?

thecremeegg

1,952 posts

202 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
BlueHave said:
Remember everything they did, they did it for you.

Its not worth fighting for
rofl

Mr Snrub

24,942 posts

226 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
BlueHave said:
Remember everything they did, they did it for you.

Its not worth fighting for
Not their fault it was the Summer of 69 mph winds

Driver101

Original Poster:

14,376 posts

120 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Ticketmaster responded and have basically said it's nothing to do with them. They sent me the generic email for LCC live.

Montrose Music Festival themselves haven't responded to emails. It reads as if they are in total denial of any issues at all. They have deleted a lot of the complaints from their social media pages. The pages now look as if everyone had a fantastic night, but complaints were plenty before.

There was a lot of running dialog between them and people at the gig on the night.

From the biggest event in their history they've managed to post one photograph and one video.

Here's the video. This video has better sound than we had. The wind does look a bit calmer at this point and there was sound.


http://sendvid.com/9sf1xe6r

Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 9th August 21:56

Driver101

Original Poster:

14,376 posts

120 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Wacky Racer said:
These things happen. Deal with it.

I went to The Buxton Pop festival in 1973, with Chuck Berry, Nazareth, The Edger Broughton Band and more.

It was 1500ft up on the windswept moors above Buxton, the rain was sheeting down, mud was nearly up to your knees and the Hells Angels started a mud fight pelting EVERYONE with wet mud, even the artists on stage.

It was great fun.

Also the 1975 Reading festival with wishbone Ash, festival goers had to put up with HUNDREDS of sometimes half full beer cans being thrown from the back, at least two hit me on the back of my head....grumpy

Not so great fun.....biggrin

Festivals eh?
There's a big different between a festival and single band doing 2 hour concert though. Not only was the bad weather forecast, and severe weather warnings in place, the gale force winds were active 18 hours before the start.

It should have been postponed.

Wacky Racer

38,099 posts

246 months

Tuesday 9th August 2016
quotequote all
Driver101 said:
There's a big different between a festival and single band doing 2 hour concert though. Not only was the bad weather forecast, and severe weather warnings in place, the gale force winds were active 18 hours before the start.

It should have been postponed.
You obviously feel strongly about it, so hopefully you will receive a full/partial refund..smile

There is a serious safety issue here though, stages have been known to collapse in severe weather.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7hcOVwPd6c

Foliage

3,861 posts

121 months

DanSI

139 posts

141 months

Wednesday 10th August 2016
quotequote all
58warren said:
I was there - about 30 metres from the stage and although it was gusty, the weather stayed dry and it was a sunny evening.

The speakers were occasionally overcome by strong wind so the sound would fade briefly now and then, but all in all I thought it was a really good concert. There was plenty of space towards the front if people had wanted to move forwards a bit.

I thoroughly enjoyed the evening,
Your experience, which contradict the OP, almost make it sound like you were at a completely different concert/venue. biggrin
Didn't know BA was still doing the rounds.

NNH

1,515 posts

131 months

Wednesday 10th August 2016
quotequote all
Mr Snrub said:
BlueHave said:
Remember everything they did, they did it for you.

Its not worth fighting for
Not their fault it was the Summer of 69 mph winds
Bryan Adams wouldn't let the organisers cancel, because everywhere he goes the kids wanna rock.