Another disqualification question

[agtlaw]

OverSteery said:

speedking31 said:

But the point (sorry!) of incremental points leading to a totting up ban is to give the motorist the opportunity to modify their behaviour. Otherwise why not have an instant 6 month ban for any speeding offence? By applying 2 sets of points before the driver knows about the first is not giving them that opportunity. Mags should consider the reason for the existence of the points system and assess accordingly.

Where is it stated that this system is to allow the motorist is to modify their behaviour?

You could equally argue its to allow for the occasional lack of attention but punish the habitual speeder.

Magistrates Association:

1) Under section 35 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, drivers who accumulate 12 or more penalty points within any 3 year period are liable to a mandatory disqualification for a minimum period of 6 months. The measure is an important part of the Government's road safety agenda and is intended to act as a powerful deterrent to motorists who continue to commit road traffic offences despite previous endorsements.

...

4 (ii) If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to his licence of further penalty points, the court will be far less inclined to find exceptional hardship where he is the only person to suffer as a result of a ban.

[xjay1337]

blueg33 said:

Not all speedo's over read, why does PH constantly suggest that they do by quite a big margin, eg 38 to 42 is over 10%

Tested against GPS)

My Lotus is spot on up to about 100mph after that I am not interested in looking at the speedo or the nav
A6 over read at 40 mph by just 1 mph
Outback is 1mph over at 30mph
Tuscan over and under depending on the day

Most "normal" cars are documented as reading 3 or 4 mph over. This is to allow for weird things like tyre sizes or pressures. As most modern cards are done from the wheel speed sensors.
Hence why getting caught at an actual 37mph would be an indicated 40 for MOST people.

At 70mph my car GPS is 67.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

When people say (and this isn't a dig at the OP.....well I suppose it is a bit) that they have points on their licence so are being extra careful, does that mean that they are being extra vigilant in looking out for cameras and speed guns? Because when I had 6 points, and I was being extra careful, it meant that I just stopped speeding. Completely, for 18 months.

It didn't matter if I spotted the policeman or the camera or not, because I was never speeding. Maybe things have changed.

[blueg33]

xjay1337 said:

blueg33 said:

Not all speedo's over read, why does PH constantly suggest that they do by quite a big margin, eg 38 to 42 is over 10%

Tested against GPS)

My Lotus is spot on up to about 100mph after that I am not interested in looking at the speedo or the nav
A6 over read at 40 mph by just 1 mph
Outback is 1mph over at 30mph
Tuscan over and under depending on the day

Most "normal" cars are documented as reading 3 or 4 mph over. This is to allow for weird things like tyre sizes or pressures. As most modern cards are done from the wheel speed sensors.
Hence why getting caught at an actual 37mph would be an indicated 40 for MOST people.

At 70mph my car GPS is 67.

But not in every case, yet its frequently used to belittle an op.

[Moominho]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

When people say (and this isn't a dig at the OP.....well I suppose it is a bit) that they have points on their licence so are being extra careful, does that mean that they are being extra vigilant in looking out for cameras and speed guns? Because when I had 6 points, and I was being extra careful, it meant that I just stopped speeding. Completely, for 18 months.

It didn't matter if I spotted the policeman or the camera or not, because I was never speeding. Maybe things have changed.

To be honest I have calmed down a lot, I do adhere to the speed limits most of the time now, whereas before I was a bit immature. It's no excuse but it's a quiet wide road and I wasn't paying attention.

[roofer]

Moominho said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

When people say (and this isn't a dig at the OP.....well I suppose it is a bit) that they have points on their licence so are being extra careful, does that mean that they are being extra vigilant in looking out for cameras and speed guns? Because when I had 6 points, and I was being extra careful, it meant that I just stopped speeding. Completely, for 18 months.

It didn't matter if I spotted the policeman or the camera or not, because I was never speeding. Maybe things have changed.

To be honest I have calmed down a lot, I do adhere to the speed limits most of the time now, whereas before I was a bit immature. It's no excuse but it's a quiet wide road and I wasn't paying attention.

Which is why the slags put the van there in the first place.

[DoubleD]

blueg33 said:

xjay1337 said:

blueg33 said:

Not all speedo's over read, why does PH constantly suggest that they do by quite a big margin, eg 38 to 42 is over 10%

Tested against GPS)

My Lotus is spot on up to about 100mph after that I am not interested in looking at the speedo or the nav
A6 over read at 40 mph by just 1 mph
Outback is 1mph over at 30mph
Tuscan over and under depending on the day

Most "normal" cars are documented as reading 3 or 4 mph over. This is to allow for weird things like tyre sizes or pressures. As most modern cards are done from the wheel speed sensors.
Hence why getting caught at an actual 37mph would be an indicated 40 for MOST people.

At 70mph my car GPS is 67.

But not in every case, yet its frequently used to belittle an op.

Every car that ive ever checked over reads.

[blueg33]

DoubleD said:

blueg33 said:

xjay1337 said:

blueg33 said:

Not all speedo's over read, why does PH constantly suggest that they do by quite a big margin, eg 38 to 42 is over 10%

Tested against GPS)

My Lotus is spot on up to about 100mph after that I am not interested in looking at the speedo or the nav
A6 over read at 40 mph by just 1 mph
Outback is 1mph over at 30mph
Tuscan over and under depending on the day

Most "normal" cars are documented as reading 3 or 4 mph over. This is to allow for weird things like tyre sizes or pressures. As most modern cards are done from the wheel speed sensors.
Hence why getting caught at an actual 37mph would be an indicated 40 for MOST people.

At 70mph my car GPS is 67.

But not in every case, yet its frequently used to belittle an op.

Every car that ive ever checked over reads.

Plenty don't, especially by the margins often quoted here

[DoubleD]

2mph to 3mph seems to be fairly normal in my experience.

[speedking31]

Ki3r said:

speedking31 said:

But the point (sorry!) of incremental points leading to a totting up ban is to give the motorist the opportunity to modify their behaviour. Otherwise why not have an instant 6 month ban for any speeding offence? By applying 2 sets of points before the driver knows about the first is not giving them that opportunity. Mags should consider the reason for the existence of the points system and assess accordingly.

The OPS was already on six points, so already been given a chance to modify their behaviour

So why not just allow 9 points then? It's twelve for a reason

[PoleDriver]

Which is the worst/most dangerous scenario?
1) Knowingly exceeding the speed limit, consistently.
2) Driving with such a lack of concentration that you don't know what speed you are doing, consistently.

[rscott]

xjay1337 said:

Most "normal" cars are documented as reading 3 or 4 mph over. This is to allow for weird things like tyre sizes or pressures. As most modern cards are done from the wheel speed sensors.
Hence why getting caught at an actual 37mph would be an indicated 40 for MOST people.

At 70mph my car GPS is 67.

Many modern cars aren't correctly configured - the tyre size can often be configured in the ECU so they don't overread. My 2006 Saab supported this, so I'd expect most cars to now.

[surveyor_101]

PoleDriver said:

Which is the worst/most dangerous scenario?
1) Knowingly exceeding the speed limit, consistently.
2) Driving with such a lack of concentration that you don't know what speed you are doing, consistently.

That got men on my speed awareness years ago.

They asked anyone know they were speeding when they got caught.

I was the only person with my hand up.

I was doing 83 on 70 dual track and everyone else seeemed to be 30 limit speeders. The course focused on town driving and was all about not speeding past schools.

[xjay1337]

rscott said:

Many modern cars aren't correctly configured - the tyre size can often be configured in the ECU so they don't overread. My 2006 Saab supported this, so I'd expect most cars to now.

To a point.

Either way, my point is that if you are caught doing 37 in a 30, that's not a case of "creeping over". You would full well know you are speeding.

[jith]

Andy OH said:

Looks like you need to go to Spec Savers.

I agree with a previous poster...the speed you were caught at is an indicated 40mph in your car. Sorry to say but you were not being careful were you!

Many years ago I had accumulated 9 points (two speeding and one traffic light offence, this was way before awareness courses were offered) and for six months, whilst waiting for the first three points to drop of my licnece I did not at any time or anywhere exceed the speed limit, which took an awful lot of concentration when my only means of transport was a Yamaha R1.

Best you get yourself a good lawyer or otherwise take a holiday if you lose your licence and learn from your mistake(s).

Edited by Andy OH on Monday 15th August 12:44

Yeah, well no doubt sellotape will be a long in a minute to tell you that it's your fault you don't have the telescopic vision of a golden eagle, and they have the right to conceal the vans behind trees/under bridges/on the space station/etc, and there's nothing you can do about it because they have the power and you're just an insignificant pleb. Oh, and he is saving children and pensioners lives by the million, and topping up his already massive profits and pension from this crap is incidental.

J

P.S. No apologies for the clear and obvious aggression in my post. Due to recent events I'm in a sick-to-death of crap mood!!

[surveyor_101]

janesmith1950 said:

Totting up has its own offence code, which I presume you'd need to declare come renewal time. Are you saying insurers don't take this offence into account?

Interesting if so.

They look at ban length and fine that's all they asked me for when I got a 21 day totting up ban.

Don't remember it having it's one code but was 11-12 years ago now

[C70R]

blueg33 said:

DoubleD said:

blueg33 said:

xjay1337 said:

blueg33 said:

Not all speedo's over read, why does PH constantly suggest that they do by quite a big margin, eg 38 to 42 is over 10%

Tested against GPS)

My Lotus is spot on up to about 100mph after that I am not interested in looking at the speedo or the nav
A6 over read at 40 mph by just 1 mph
Outback is 1mph over at 30mph
Tuscan over and under depending on the day

Most "normal" cars are documented as reading 3 or 4 mph over. This is to allow for weird things like tyre sizes or pressures. As most modern cards are done from the wheel speed sensors.
Hence why getting caught at an actual 37mph would be an indicated 40 for MOST people.

At 70mph my car GPS is 67.

But not in every case, yet its frequently used to belittle an op.

Every car that ive ever checked over reads.

Plenty don't, especially by the margins often quoted here

Indeed. I've owned 3 cars which were +/-1mph against GPS speed, yet it's often cited on here as being a much more substantial difference (particularly when patronising).

However, driving over the limit or not being 100% clear of the limit when you're already on 6pts is pretty stupid behaviour.

Edited by C70R on Tuesday 16th August 10:47

[Red Devil]

Totting up disqualification code is TT99 - https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-endorsements/end...

[anonymous-user]

surveyor_101 said:

They look at ban length and fine that's all they asked me for when I got a 21 day totting up ban.

Don't remember it having it's one code but was 11-12 years ago now

Are you sure you got a 21 day ban for totting up? It sounds quite a lot like it was a short term ban for a single speeding offence, which is not the same thing.

[Rangeroverover]

I had a similar experience on the way into Poole RNLI office and back again.

I plead hardship, my genuine reason for going to Poole was my Dad in ill health wanted to leave some money to RNLI in his will and wanted advice from them as to the best way to go about it. I offered to go for him.

It was explained to me that hardship is a once in a lifetime deal and the hardship needed to effect someone else. As my Dad was near death they allowed me my 12 points on my licence.

You need to find someone closeish to you who would be effected by your lack of a driving licence and produce someevidence of it