Clauses in student tenancy
Discussion
Before I go back to the LL anyone care to comment.
Daughter is off the Uni and has sorted accommodation in a shared student house with individual tenancies for their rooms. All good so far, perfectly set up accommodation for student life etc etc
Her room has a vertical blind on the large (2m wide) window and girls being girls she wants to put up curtains to reduce light and noise from outside.
On our last visit this was mentioned and we were told we would need the LL permission for this. Nearly challenged it as being a bit unreasonable but not having anything to hand let it go. Via their agent daughter requested permission and they came back saying the LL doesn't want anything attached to walls etc as per "9.2" in the tenancy agreement. See below:
9.2 The Tenant’s obligations
9.2.1 Repair The Tenant must keep the interior of the Property and the Common Parts in a good state of repair and condition, clean and properly maintained, including the doors, window frames and glass in windows, doors and skylights, and must replace all broken glass, light bulbs, fluorescent tubes and fuses so that the condition of the interior is the same at the end of the Term as it was at the beginning of the Term.
9.2.2 Decoration The Tenant must not carry out any substantial redecoration of the internal walls and other surfaces including doors and window frames within the Property and must not damage the walls, ceilings and floors of the Property with nails, pins, glue or adhesive putty. If damage to the walls does occur, the Tenant is permitted to redecorate but must do so using paints and colours approved by the Landlord in advance.
Now to my mind these clauses are basically saying don't bang nails in the wall as you'll make a mess and we don't want the hassle of having to get them fixed and then argue with you about how much we've taken from your (£595) dilapidations deposit. Fair enough. But at the same time its saying if you do fix things to the wall you are permitted to redecorate.
As the request to the LL was phrased:
"....Please seek permission from the landlord for my dad to install a curtain track above the window in my room so I can put up some curtains. We will either leave this in place at the end of the year or remove and make good any holes and decoration, which ever you would prefer. "
Thinking of just pinging the agent a mail saying you've got nearly £600 dilapidations, 9.2 says we can redecorate, what's the issue?
Any comments?
Daughter is off the Uni and has sorted accommodation in a shared student house with individual tenancies for their rooms. All good so far, perfectly set up accommodation for student life etc etc
Her room has a vertical blind on the large (2m wide) window and girls being girls she wants to put up curtains to reduce light and noise from outside.
On our last visit this was mentioned and we were told we would need the LL permission for this. Nearly challenged it as being a bit unreasonable but not having anything to hand let it go. Via their agent daughter requested permission and they came back saying the LL doesn't want anything attached to walls etc as per "9.2" in the tenancy agreement. See below:
9.2 The Tenant’s obligations
9.2.1 Repair The Tenant must keep the interior of the Property and the Common Parts in a good state of repair and condition, clean and properly maintained, including the doors, window frames and glass in windows, doors and skylights, and must replace all broken glass, light bulbs, fluorescent tubes and fuses so that the condition of the interior is the same at the end of the Term as it was at the beginning of the Term.
9.2.2 Decoration The Tenant must not carry out any substantial redecoration of the internal walls and other surfaces including doors and window frames within the Property and must not damage the walls, ceilings and floors of the Property with nails, pins, glue or adhesive putty. If damage to the walls does occur, the Tenant is permitted to redecorate but must do so using paints and colours approved by the Landlord in advance.
Now to my mind these clauses are basically saying don't bang nails in the wall as you'll make a mess and we don't want the hassle of having to get them fixed and then argue with you about how much we've taken from your (£595) dilapidations deposit. Fair enough. But at the same time its saying if you do fix things to the wall you are permitted to redecorate.
As the request to the LL was phrased:
"....Please seek permission from the landlord for my dad to install a curtain track above the window in my room so I can put up some curtains. We will either leave this in place at the end of the year or remove and make good any holes and decoration, which ever you would prefer. "
Thinking of just pinging the agent a mail saying you've got nearly £600 dilapidations, 9.2 says we can redecorate, what's the issue?
Any comments?
The owner of the property has said no, and an agreement has been signed, you don't know for instance that a cable or pipe could be hidden in the wall. The question should have been asked before taking the property on if it's that much on an issue.
If I rented your car and asked if I could light up your tyres at every opportunity, but replace them before I returned it to you, and you said no, what would you expect me to do?
If I rented your car and asked if I could light up your tyres at every opportunity, but replace them before I returned it to you, and you said no, what would you expect me to do?
tapereel said:
Screwing up a curtain rail doesn't damage a wall.
Not sure if serious.OP - you're a bit stuffed now you've asked and the LL has said no, and it's also more risky as you're going through an agent and they'll be looking to screw as much out of you as possible at the end.
I've been through this with daughters three times but never through an agent. Two were fine and couldn't care less what we did and both paid for stuff we left. Last one wouldn't allow anything and we got billed for re-repainting a wall that we'd repainted as white-tac had marked it and the shade of paint we'd used was slightly different.
Tensioned curtain pole may be an answer if there is space in the window recess.
Something like:
http://www.johnlewis.com/umbra-chroma-tension-rod-...
Something like:
http://www.johnlewis.com/umbra-chroma-tension-rod-...
Hungry Pigeon said:
As an alternative to screwing a curtain rail to the wall, have you thought of using something like these? If you get a lightweight pole and lighter curtains, it should be fine.....and you should easily be able to remove it at the end of the tenancy.
They are good, but I'm not sure I would trust one (or 2) to hold up a curtain of any real use (i.e. reduces light better than the blinds). I also find they're great for static loads (i.e. pictures) but rubbish for dynamics loads (i.e. hanging a dressing gown) and tend to fail much sooner. Sheepshanks said:
tapereel said:
Screwing up a curtain rail doesn't damage a wall.
Not sure if serious.OP - you're a bit stuffed now you've asked and the LL has said no, and it's also more risky as you're going through an agent and they'll be looking to screw as much out of you as possible at the end.
I've been through this with daughters three times but never through an agent. Two were fine and couldn't care less what we did and both paid for stuff we left. Last one wouldn't allow anything and we got billed for re-repainting a wall that we'd repainted as white-tac had marked it and the shade of paint we'd used was slightly different.
How does putting up a curtain rail meet this definition of 'damage'?
physical harm that impairs the value, usefulness, or normal function of something.
tapereel said:
Sheepshanks said:
tapereel said:
Screwing up a curtain rail doesn't damage a wall.
Not sure if serious.OP - you're a bit stuffed now you've asked and the LL has said no, and it's also more risky as you're going through an agent and they'll be looking to screw as much out of you as possible at the end.
I've been through this with daughters three times but never through an agent. Two were fine and couldn't care less what we did and both paid for stuff we left. Last one wouldn't allow anything and we got billed for re-repainting a wall that we'd repainted as white-tac had marked it and the shade of paint we'd used was slightly different.
How does putting up a curtain rail meet this definition of 'damage'?
physical harm that impairs the value, usefulness, or normal function of something.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/conten...
jkh112 said:
Tensioned curtain pole may be an answer if there is space in the window recess.
Something like:
http://www.johnlewis.com/umbra-chroma-tension-rod-...
I'd go for a tensioned pole too, solves the problem without any aggro.Something like:
http://www.johnlewis.com/umbra-chroma-tension-rod-...
Just put up a curtain rail. Be careful and it'll leave a few small screw holes. Fill them before you leave.
If anyone thinks a landlord will be able to take anything more than a few pence from a deposit for a few small screw holes, even if you didn't make good, then they are having a laugh. They'd get laughed out a TDS adjudication trying to hit someone with that.
There are things that landlords put in rental contracts that are superseded by statutory law.
There are others that are superseded by common sense and lack of a way to enforce them.
If anyone thinks a landlord will be able to take anything more than a few pence from a deposit for a few small screw holes, even if you didn't make good, then they are having a laugh. They'd get laughed out a TDS adjudication trying to hit someone with that.
There are things that landlords put in rental contracts that are superseded by statutory law.
There are others that are superseded by common sense and lack of a way to enforce them.
spookly said:
Just put up a curtain rail. Be careful and it'll leave a few small screw holes. Fill them before you leave.
If anyone thinks a landlord will be able to take anything more than a few pence from a deposit for a few small screw holes, even if you didn't make good, then they are having a laugh. They'd get laughed out a TDS adjudication trying to hit someone with that.
There are things that landlords put in rental contracts that are superseded by statutory law.
There are others that are superseded by common sense and lack of a way to enforce them.
^This^ The landlord / agent would have to justify any deductions from the deposit........they can't just hang on to it or deduct whatever they want. If anyone thinks a landlord will be able to take anything more than a few pence from a deposit for a few small screw holes, even if you didn't make good, then they are having a laugh. They'd get laughed out a TDS adjudication trying to hit someone with that.
There are things that landlords put in rental contracts that are superseded by statutory law.
There are others that are superseded by common sense and lack of a way to enforce them.
spookly said:
If anyone thinks a landlord will be able to take anything more than a few pence from a deposit for a few small screw holes, even if you didn't make good, then they are having a laugh. They'd get laughed out a TDS adjudication trying to hit someone with that.
Pot of filler, pot of paint, someone to come out and do it... Walls often get hammered (even blu tac can leave marks) and if you are changing student tenants yearly it makes sense to say 'just dont mess with the walls'...It's not unreasonable to say no. Unless a professional is fitting the pole/curtains it's a can of worms for the LL and any promises to make good- everyone's idea/standard is different. You saw and rented the place after viewing. Any alterations would be chargeable out of your deposit IMO.
hora said:
It's not unreasonable to say no. Unless a professional is fitting the pole/curtains it's a can of worms for the LL and any promises to make good- everyone's idea/standard is different. You saw and rented the place after viewing. Any alterations damage not made right would be chargeable out of your deposit IMO.
FTFY.The landlord can't apply penalties for alterations no matter what the contract says.
He can potentially retain part or all of the deposit due to damage that cannot be considered normal wear and tear.
Whether the TDS arbitration or courts would consider small screw holes enough damage to warrant retaining deposit money will be based on the state of the place being rented. In a high end executive apartment in absolutely perfect condition at start of lease they'd probably allow it, on a cheaply decorated student flat.... much less likely, but not impossible.
Problem with curtains is it may not end up being "a couple of small screw holes". Many longer/heavier poles need 2 holes each end and often some in the middle; the holes need rawlplugs; if they're not fitted well then the weight of the curtains pulls the poles out and down, damaging the plaster around the fixing as well as around the holes. Add to that you don't know the state of the walls where you're planning to fix the pole (might be 95% filler already) and the varying quality of people's ideas of "repaired" and "paint matched"...
...I'm not surprised LLs go for "leave the walls alone" - and double for student houses which will usually have new tenants every year.
2 things come out:
Presumably everyone was happy enough to sign the contract when they went in.
Tension poles will do the job... it's not like they're in the same house forever!
...I'm not surprised LLs go for "leave the walls alone" - and double for student houses which will usually have new tenants every year.
2 things come out:
Presumably everyone was happy enough to sign the contract when they went in.
Tension poles will do the job... it's not like they're in the same house forever!
As others have said accept you cause some damage and simply repair at end of tenancy
All i would recommend if your worried, dont put up a normal curtail rail as you could end up peppering the wall to find a decent fixing depending on the lintel over the window.
Accept a compromise and use a wardrobe type rail fixing to the inside reveal of the window. pretty much gauranteed to get a good fixing even if the curtains are not as attractivley hung. Plus reveal should be easy to repair / hide the damage at a later date
.
All i would recommend if your worried, dont put up a normal curtail rail as you could end up peppering the wall to find a decent fixing depending on the lintel over the window.
Accept a compromise and use a wardrobe type rail fixing to the inside reveal of the window. pretty much gauranteed to get a good fixing even if the curtains are not as attractivley hung. Plus reveal should be easy to repair / hide the damage at a later date
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