Company refusing to issue paper payslips - legalities?
Discussion
Here's some advice for everyone lecturing old people or anyone else for that matter how using the internet is really easy and everyone should use it even if they haven't so far: f
k off. After you have finished fking off, if you really want to make it happen then pay for a computer and Internet subscription out of your own money and give it to OP's mate so he can learn, since it seems he's been managing fine so far. If you aren't prepared to pay for OP's mate's Internet yourself, then go back to my first advice, ie fk off.
k off. After you have finished fking off, if you really want to make it happen then pay for a computer and Internet subscription out of your own money and give it to OP's mate so he can learn, since it seems he's been managing fine so far. If you aren't prepared to pay for OP's mate's Internet yourself, then go back to my first advice, ie fk off. creampuff said:
Here's some advice for everyone lecturing old people or anyone else for that matter how using the internet is really easy and everyone should use it even if they haven't so far: fk off. After you have finished fking off, if you really want to make it happen then pay for a computer and Internet subscription out of your own money and give it to OP's mate so he can learn, since it seems he's been managing fine so far. If you aren't prepared to pay for OP's mate's Internet yourself, then go back to my first advice, ie fk off.
Well said!k off. After you have finished fking off, if you really want to make it happen then pay for a computer and Internet subscription out of your own money and give it to OP's mate so he can learn, since it seems he's been managing fine so far. If you aren't prepared to pay for OP's mate's Internet yourself, then go back to my first advice, ie fk off. Might be an idea to keep up with current events. The developed world is automating. Soon you will be legally obliged to file your taxes online. You will apply for benefits online. Government, heavens, Society will not know you other than online.
There isn't a choice anymore. There are public free internet connections and terminals for those who cannot afford their own in libraries (a good use for an utterly outdated service) and town halls. Not being able to use a computer is now like being unable to read.
I'm not trying to be mean, here, I'm just stating facts. Due to the almost universal take up of internet connected devices it has become the standard. Wishing it away is like telling the tide not to come in.
The edge cases are sad. We should try to help them, when we can but not by burying heads in the sand...
There isn't a choice anymore. There are public free internet connections and terminals for those who cannot afford their own in libraries (a good use for an utterly outdated service) and town halls. Not being able to use a computer is now like being unable to read.
I'm not trying to be mean, here, I'm just stating facts. Due to the almost universal take up of internet connected devices it has become the standard. Wishing it away is like telling the tide not to come in.
The edge cases are sad. We should try to help them, when we can but not by burying heads in the sand...
maybe someone that age should retire and allow the younger generation to get a foothold on the career ladder 
simoid said:
Plenty of the older generation can't work a telly with more than 4 channels so purchasing a device, getting an Internet connection and combining it all to log in to an email account to get a payslip is about as likely as me swimming to Mars, tbh!
One of the things my Dad was planning when he died at 92 was to get on to internet so he could keep in touch with all his family. My ex-MiL at 87 went on-line 12 years ago and I've helped several people in their 70s do the same. These are people born in the 1920s-30s whose parents probably never had a telephone in their homes; these days they use mobile phones, microwave ovens, satnavs - as a generation I've found they're far more adaptable than you give them credit for.bhstewie said:
hstewie said: It's an interesting thread tbh.
I can't understand why someone would not want to use stuff like the internet an email but it's their prerogative and I also can't understand why any employer would be such a dick over what boils down to hitting "print" once a month if someone asks
I have a friend who refuses to use a mobile phone. I'm not talking smartphone here...a mobile phone at all. He's happy enough with email.I can't understand why someone would not want to use stuff like the internet an email but it's their prerogative and I also can't understand why any employer would be such a dick over what boils down to hitting "print" once a month if someone asks
But what not owning a phone does is it means you cannot receive SMS messages. Many companies and government agencies use SMS as part of the two factor authentication (2FA) processes. Without a phone it's difficult to submit a tax return - and you absolutely have to do that. I believe he is one of the very few still allowed to submit his return ON PAPER. LOL. Eventually they'll fix that and paper will be gone forever.
REALIST123 said:
All that jazz said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Thanks. Useful. Re your earlier comment, if you've ever tried to teach the internet/email to someone well into their senior years you would know that "surely this isn't that difficult" is about as far from reality as you can get.Might I suggest that your freind's issue may be to do with reasons other than age?
She uses email and Facebook with no issues, and does her shopping and banking on line. These days being on line is no harder than operating a TV.
PurpleMoonlight said:
sparkythecat said:
It would appear that the company have identified a training need in one of their employees that they themselves should address.
If the employment does not involve the use of the internet/email then no it isn't.I agree that older people can gain a lot from computers and the internet (remember the late "geriatric1927"?), but many have no interest, even when all the things you can do are explained, and we should respect that.
There are some people who self-teach very easily and pick up computers by trial and error (like the rest of us), there are others who have to be taught every single feature and task and just won't, or can't, learn new things. You can identify the latter because they fetch a notepad and pen to write things down when you are showing them how to do something!
Edited by Gareth79 on Sunday 28th August 22:53
I'm going off on a different tangent and pondering what is on the payslip which is so important. Can't be needed for mortgage or loan applications at that age. Must know what he is paid each month and presumably he has the means to check that he has been paid, so the payslip seems a bit ... superfluous.
Don said:
I'm not trying to be mean, here, I'm just stating facts. Due to the almost universal take up of internet connected devices it has become the standard. Wishing it away is like telling the tide not to come in.
The edge cases are sad. We should try to help them, when we can but not by burying heads in the sand...
That's great, except that about 1-in-5 adults in the world are illiterate, but about 3-in-5 adults in the world don't have internet access. So there are about 2-in-5 of all adults in the world who can read, but don't have internet access.The edge cases are sad. We should try to help them, when we can but not by burying heads in the sand...
- I'm assuming none of the illiterate adults use the internet, since they won't be able to read anything. Though perhaps there is some overlap with them just watching porn.
creampuff said:
That's great, except that about 1-in-5 adults in the world are illiterate, but about 3-in-5 adults in the world don't have internet access. So there are about 2-in-5 of all adults in the world who can read, but don't have internet access.
- I'm assuming none of the illiterate adults use the internet, since they won't be able to read anything. Though perhaps there is some overlap with them just watching porn.
The key part of your response there being "In the world". - I'm assuming none of the illiterate adults use the internet, since they won't be able to read anything. Though perhaps there is some overlap with them just watching porn.
The UK has a 99% literacy rate.
It has an 84% Home Internet Access rate (http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/householdcharacteristics/homeinternetandsocialmediausage/bulletins/internetaccesshouseholdsandindividuals/2014-08-07)
The pool of people without access in the UK is rapidly decreasing. Looking at that chart, in about ten years you can expect the illiterate percentage to match the internet non-access percentage.
Don said:
Without a phone it's difficult to submit a tax return - and you absolutely have to do that. I believe he is one of the very few still allowed to submit his return ON PAPER. LOL. Eventually they'll fix that and paper will be gone forever.
What has having a phone got to do with submitting a UK tax return? The online method is done via the internet using the Government Gateway portal which requires no such equipment. HMRC might want you to provide them with a phone number for contact purposes but there is no compulsion whatever on you to provide it. They don't have mine, only my e-mail address and I have been submitting online for several years.As for very few people being 'still allowed' allowed to submit a paper return, that's rubbish. Any individual taxpayer can currently submit a paper return if he/she wishes to. The difference is the deadline date. You get 3 months less in which to do so using the paper method - https://www.gov.uk/self-assessment-tax-returns/dea...
The goal posts may well shift ere long though - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Gareth79 said:
This is my thinking. If the job provides access to a computer and printer then it's reasonable to provide them electronically. If the job has no computer use then it's a bit much to expect the employee to purchase a computer to simply check their pay and deductions.
It's a fair point that it is perhaps unreasonable for an employer to expect an employee to purchase a computer and internet access just to receive their payslip. The OP has established an email account for his friend though so I assume the friend must have access to both computer and internet or there would have been no point.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Gareth79 said:
This is my thinking. If the job provides access to a computer and printer then it's reasonable to provide them electronically. If the job has no computer use then it's a bit much to expect the employee to purchase a computer to simply check their pay and deductions.
It's a fair point that it is perhaps unreasonable for an employer to expect an employee to purchase a computer and internet access just to receive their payslip. The OP has established an email account for his friend though so I assume the friend must have access to both computer and internet or there would have been no point.
E.g. Site security, porter, cleaning. In an example I know, the employer makes some access terminals available with an IT bod on call. They use the same terminals for basic training (H&S, etc) on induction.
This is not an ultra progressive employer, it's a big UK university with glacial change rates. They have a lot of manual workers with low IT skills. Their Unions are fully supportive (after consultation)
Whilst it may be legal, there are potentially some significant security concerns.
I know there are a lot of people who don't care about this, but I like my personal information to be private and secure.
If sent by email, then there should be an appropriate level of encryption and you should be able to selkect your own credentials.
In my employer's initial system, payslips were sent as PDFs encrypted usin National Insurance numbers. Knowing this, they could be cracked within a few seconds on a recent PC.
Subsequently an on-line system was implemented. The data was still not adequately protected. I could choose my own password, but not only was it stored in plain text , it was converted to upper case and no special characters were allowed. you can check this by submitting a lost password request. This is far from best practice, if not downright negligent. ICO investigation in progress...
I know there are a lot of people who don't care about this, but I like my personal information to be private and secure.
If sent by email, then there should be an appropriate level of encryption and you should be able to selkect your own credentials.
In my employer's initial system, payslips were sent as PDFs encrypted usin National Insurance numbers. Knowing this, they could be cracked within a few seconds on a recent PC.
Subsequently an on-line system was implemented. The data was still not adequately protected. I could choose my own password, but not only was it stored in plain text , it was converted to upper case and no special characters were allowed. you can check this by submitting a lost password request. This is far from best practice, if not downright negligent. ICO investigation in progress...
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