Another Caveat Emptor Thread - with a slight twist

[General Fluff]

chriswg said:

Lurking Lawyer said:

OP, it's not cut and dried but it's worth exploring further. A court would want expert evidence on what the datalogging evidence actually means and whether those error messages would have had to have been displayed on the dash.

It's worth checking your home contents insurance to see whether it includes legal expenses insurance and, if it does, give your insurer a call to see whether it covers a misrepresentation claim.

Funnily enough I just finished reading up about a similar case that all hinged on the reliability of the expert witness. I'm hoping this mechanic would be sufficient as he is impartial and worked for Audi as a senior mechanic for 16 years.

Great shout on the home insurance cover, I'll look into that now. Even if it doesn't, I'll be wanting to go to court to put my evidence forward.

A couple of people have mentioned getting cheaper quote's for the repair. A lot depends on the inspection next week during the service. If the mechatronic unit needs to be replaced, they need to be custom ordered from Germany and set up to match my exact car. That is going to cost £1.2k + VAT (£1,440). There is then a whole load of smaller parts that will need to be replaced as part of the process, plus approximately 20 hours of labour. £3k is possible, but it's not going to be any less unless I can get some serious mates rates on the labour part.

If it's 'just' the PCB that needs replacing then it could be half that. But, if I pay £1500 to replace the PCB and it turns out the mechatronic needs replacing after all that is £1500 down the drain and I'll still need to pay the £3k-£4k.

You haven't dealt with the most important part of Lurking Lawyer's post. Seller will claim he never felt a fault, heard a beep, saw a message on the dash, etc. Does your ECU evidence absolutely prove otherwise?

[Terminator X]

Perhaps scumbagish, couldn't the seller just say he did mention it to you and you were happy eg sold as seen really is sold as seen? One persons word vs another.

TX.

[Vaud]

General Fluff said:

You haven't dealt with the most important part of Lurking Lawyer's post. Seller will claim he never felt a fault, heard a beep, saw a message on the dash, etc. Does your ECU evidence absolutely prove otherwise?

It's a risk. Not all Audi warnings manifest themselves on the display. I can't remember (and the Audi forum experts like Dr G would be the ones to ask). But if it has gone into limp home, etc, that would be logged?

[anonymous-user]

The Germans know how to rob everyone once they've sold their cars.

[chriswg]

General Fluff said:

You haven't dealt with the most important part of Lurking Lawyer's post. Seller will claim he never felt a fault, heard a beep, saw a message on the dash, etc. Does your ECU evidence absolutely prove otherwise?

I'm certain that it does flash up with the error and loud alarm on the dashboard every time it happens. As I mentioned it happened 4 times to me and each time it scared the cr@p out of me.

[andymc]

chriswg said:

General Fluff said:

You haven't dealt with the most important part of Lurking Lawyer's post. Seller will claim he never felt a fault, heard a beep, saw a message on the dash, etc. Does your ECU evidence absolutely prove otherwise?

I'm certain that it does flash up with the error and loud alarm on the dashboard every time it happens. As I mentioned it happened 4 times to me and each time it scared the cr@p out of me.

what would WBAC give out of interest?

[C70R]

Terminator X said:

Perhaps scumbagish, couldn't the seller just say he did mention it to you and you were happy eg sold as seen really is sold as seen? One persons word vs another.

TX.

And we have a winner, ladies and gentlemen. I'm always keen to see how these threads progress, but I'm not hugely optimistic about this case.

[chriswg]

andymc said:

what would WBAC give out of interest?

13.5k!

[Jasandjules]

C70R said:

And we have a winner, ladies and gentlemen. I'm always keen to see how these threads progress, but I'm not hugely optimistic about this case.

A judge is unlikely to believe anyone except a dealer/trader/mechanic would say "Yes the engine management light screaming at me is fine".. Unless it was 5k under normal pricing to account for it of course.

Also the OP has contacted the seller and noted these things and no doubt made a record of what was said or put it in writing. A lack of response along the lines of "what are you talking about you knew about this" etc somewhat undermines such a defence.

[KevinCamaroSS]

As I understand it, this particular fault puts the car into limp-home mode, therefore on 10 occasions the seller will have experienced this. Cannot possibly claim he knew nothing about it.

[walm]

Jasandjules said:

A judge is unlikely to believe anyone except a dealer/trader/mechanic would say "Yes the engine management light screaming at me is fine".. Unless it was 5k under normal pricing to account for it of course.

Exactly, if other non-borked versions of the car are at a similar price then why on earth would anyone say, "fine, let's not worry about the £4k of work I might need to do, here's the cash"..!

[Helicopter123]

Private sale.

Sold as seen on the receipt.

Caveat Emptor.

Story Ends.

[wc98]

C70R said:

Terminator X said:

Perhaps scumbagish, couldn't the seller just say he did mention it to you and you were happy eg sold as seen really is sold as seen? One persons word vs another.

TX.

And we have a winner, ladies and gentlemen. I'm always keen to see how these threads progress, but I'm not hugely optimistic about this case.

aiui the op has a witness to the seeler describing the car as "drives beautifully" or something to that effect. in this situation i would refer to the seller as part of the dregs of society,scum without a conscience ,problem is it appears there are growing amounts of people with this sort of attitude.

op , i wish you well in getting this sorted whatever route you take.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Helicopter123 said:

Private sale.

Sold as seen on the receipt.

Caveat Emptor.

Story Ends.

Not if he has totally misrepresented the car and this can be proved.

[walm]

Helicopter123 said:

Private sale.

Sold as seen on the receipt.

Caveat Emptor.

Story Ends.

I am guessing you are neither a lawyer, nor someone who could be bothered to read the thread before posting?

[rallycross]

POORCARDEALER said:

Barring the ONE often quoted case where a private buyer sued a private seller and won, can anyone else give examples of this happening where the buyer won the case?

Good question and no answers yet probably because there is only that one odd example.

[POORCARDEALER]

rallycross said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Barring the ONE often quoted case where a private buyer sued a private seller and won, can anyone else give examples of this happening where the buyer won the case?

Good question and no answers yet probably because there is only that one odd example.

Which is amazing as its often given advice, I can assume that the cases dont reach court, or if they do they are unsuccesful

[Vaud]

POORCARDEALER said:

Which is amazing as its often given advice, I can assume that the cases dont reach court, or if they do they are unsuccesful

Or get resolved at mediation?

[BertBert]

I got £12k back from the seller of a £25k car under misrepresentation.

[Burwood]

chriswg said:

andymc said:

what would WBAC give out of interest?

13.5k!

not when they check the codes-and they do. Take the guy to court-small claims-you will win for sure. remember to retain the advert. how was he describing it. Mint condition?

Edited by Burwood on Wednesday 14th September 18:42