Discussion
Boring, ill fitting stat fest:
OVERALL: a 15.2% increase in fatal and serious collisions at 238 speed camera sites all across Wales.
the above overall result can be separated into:
1) a 13.6% reduction at 61 fixed speed camera sites
2) a 29.9% increase at 177 mobile speed camera sites
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157...
Expect a wave of 'ohh I take it all back now' posts or that a safety camera is needed just before the safety camera to double the safety factor
OVERALL: a 15.2% increase in fatal and serious collisions at 238 speed camera sites all across Wales.
the above overall result can be separated into:
1) a 13.6% reduction at 61 fixed speed camera sites
2) a 29.9% increase at 177 mobile speed camera sites
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157...
Expect a wave of 'ohh I take it all back now' posts or that a safety camera is needed just before the safety camera to double the safety factor
Digby said:
Greendubber said:
Still not providing any evidence to support your claims though?
That's the second thing always said.It's always said by those who despite appearing to have such an interest in these topics, have looked at absolutely nothing for themseleves. I never have understood that. How can one make an informed decision?
If I start to provide any information which will paint speed cameras and those involved in a bad light, you, like many before, simply chuck them on your "I don't care" pile.
You have ignored my very first question. I have been down this road many times on here and won't be doing it again when the "I don't care" joker has been played so early on!
If you're going to make such claims you need to do a little more to convince someone you are challenging that they are true.
The only point I said I dont care about is why cameras came about but if you want skew that and use it as an out so you dont have to back up your claims then feel free.
Greendubber said:
Ken Figenus said:
Greendubber said:
Well it appears you ignored my earlier request to enlighten me about all those being potted for driving below the limit...
I honestly couldnt care less how the cameras come about. I know the limit, I know that if I decide to ignore it I run the risk of being caught by camera or by bobby with a laser gun. I'll happily put my hands up to it as I dont have the sense of entitlement to decide which laws to ignore unlike some.
A standard fob off response of many - even when dealing with those that have squeaky clean licenses for a decade and thus dont even posses an axe - let alone a grinder! The argument [b]isn't[/] about 'all speed limits are nasty/bad' I honestly couldnt care less how the cameras come about. I know the limit, I know that if I decide to ignore it I run the risk of being caught by camera or by bobby with a laser gun. I'll happily put my hands up to it as I dont have the sense of entitlement to decide which laws to ignore unlike some.
its about the 'hyperactivity' around them to the utter detriment of issues of far greater significance. 10,000 people invoiced £100 for 79mph gets a pat on the back from you but I'd far rather they caught a few drunk drivers, a few bald tyres and a couple of life threatening texters instead. Life is more precious than money after all...[quote] And of course drink drivers and people on the phone need to be dealt with but witk 20k less bobbies on the streets compared to 5 years ago the level of enforcement simply cannot be equal to that of a network of cameras/camera vans can it? [/ end bl00dy quote]
But you dont seem bothered about that though. Copper mates of about the same age as me ARE. Maybe you are younger and are used to the cr@ppier status quo - where Siemens dictates terms rather than common sense?
Edited by Ken Figenus as he cant do quotes on Thursday 15th September 19:32
Edited by Ken Figenus on Thursday 15th September 19:33
Ken Figenus said:
Boring, ill fitting stat fest:
OVERALL: a 15.2% increase in fatal and serious collisions at 238 speed camera sites all across Wales.
the above overall result can be separated into:
1) a 13.6% reduction at 61 fixed speed camera sites
2) a 29.9% increase at 177 mobile speed camera sites
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157...
Expect a wave of 'ohh I take it all back now' posts or that a safety camera is needed just before the safety camera to double the safety factor
I think you are looking at cameras the wrong way.OVERALL: a 15.2% increase in fatal and serious collisions at 238 speed camera sites all across Wales.
the above overall result can be separated into:
1) a 13.6% reduction at 61 fixed speed camera sites
2) a 29.9% increase at 177 mobile speed camera sites
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=157...
Expect a wave of 'ohh I take it all back now' posts or that a safety camera is needed just before the safety camera to double the safety factor
I don't look at them in isolation (why would you?)
The policy that is the whole premise behind their existence is speed limits.
Speed limits are the whole reason we have speed enforcement.
If you don't have enforcement there is no point in having limits in the first place.
Cameras are a means of enforcement & upholding those limits.
The question to be asked is do speed limits offer a benefit?
If we are better off with speed limits then enforcement is a necessity & a given.
So even 'if' & it's a big 'if' cameras can be said to have a negative impact in some circumstances they can still be justifiable because of the overall benefits of limits & the necessity of enforcement to support them.
It's a bit like medicine. Medicine can have some side effects you'd rather not experience, but you are better of overall because of the medicine.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 15th September 19:42
vonhosen said:
I think you are looking at cameras the wrong way.
I don't look at them in isolation (why would you?)
Arghhh! My whole argument is ABOUT the BIGGER picture. Cameras serve a good purpose - but as One Direction said "its all about youuuu"!!!I don't look at them in isolation (why would you?)
Did you see: "15.2% increase in fatal and serious collisions at 238 speed camera sites" or was that just auto dialled out!
Out.
Ken Figenus said:
Greendubber said:
Ken Figenus said:
Greendubber said:
Well it appears you ignored my earlier request to enlighten me about all those being potted for driving below the limit...
I honestly couldnt care less how the cameras come about. I know the limit, I know that if I decide to ignore it I run the risk of being caught by camera or by bobby with a laser gun. I'll happily put my hands up to it as I dont have the sense of entitlement to decide which laws to ignore unlike some.
A standard fob off response of many - even when dealing with those that have squeaky clean licenses for a decade and thus dont even posses an axe - let alone a grinder! The argument [b]isn't[/] about 'all speed limits are nasty/bad' I honestly couldnt care less how the cameras come about. I know the limit, I know that if I decide to ignore it I run the risk of being caught by camera or by bobby with a laser gun. I'll happily put my hands up to it as I dont have the sense of entitlement to decide which laws to ignore unlike some.
its about the 'hyperactivity' around them to the utter detriment of issues of far greater significance. 10,000 people invoiced £100 for 79mph gets a pat on the back from you but I'd far rather they caught a few drunk drivers, a few bald tyres and a couple of life threatening texters instead. Life is more precious than money after all...Ken Figenus said:
Greendubber said:
And of course drink drivers and people on the phone need to be dealt with but witk 20k less bobbies on the streets compared to 5 years ago the level of enforcement simply cannot be equal to that of a network of cameras/camera vans can it?
But you dont seem bothered about that though. Copper mates of about the same age as me ARE. Maybe you are younger and are used to the cr@ppier status quo - where Siemens dictates terms rather than common sense?If there had been it would have been used back then.
And I suspect I am probably old enough.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 15th September 19:40
Ken Figenus said:
vonhosen said:
I think you are looking at cameras the wrong way.
I don't look at them in isolation (why would you?)
Arghhh! My whole argument is ABOUT the BIGGER picture. Cameras serve a good purpose - but as One Direction said "its all about youuuu"!!!I don't look at them in isolation (why would you?)
Did you see: "15.2% increase in fatal and serious collisions at 238 speed camera sites" or was that just auto dialled out!
Out.
Did you read the rest of what I wrote (before you stomp off)?
vonhosen said:
We didn't prosecute in the old days because we couldn't, there wasn't the mechanism/technology/machinery/manpower to deal with it.
If there had been it would have been used back then.
An I suspect I am probably old enough.
I had more speeding stops in the 'old days' than now with such clever easy auto enforcement... They also smelt my breath, had a look at my tax disk and checked my tyres... They probably also checked the size of my pupils... But of course that is old hat, twee and pants.If there had been it would have been used back then.
An I suspect I am probably old enough.
I rest my case.
No really I do!Digby said:
vonhosen said:
If a Police officers fits somebody up for a burglary that doesn't make prosecuting burglars bad..
I'll be sure to come here and defend the officers and suggest I really don't care should that start to happen on a global scale.Deal with corrupt individuals & those who commit offences.
Greendubber said:
OK, I asked you to enlighten me and you've decided not to. You have offered nothing to support your numerous claims making them to appear nothing more than your opinion.
If you're going to make such claims you need to do a little more to convince someone you are challenging that they are true.
The only point I said I dont care about is why cameras came about but if you want skew that and use it as an out so you dont have to back up your claims then feel free.
I would ask why you have not looked in to any of this yourself, but, as you don't care why cameras came about, I would assume you have no interest in those involved that made it happen etc. I'm sure you wouldn't care about this bit of info over here, but explore that bit over there...If you're going to make such claims you need to do a little more to convince someone you are challenging that they are true.
The only point I said I dont care about is why cameras came about but if you want skew that and use it as an out so you dont have to back up your claims then feel free.
You simply don't care. I get it. Move on
Edited by Digby on Thursday 15th September 19:49
vonhosen said:
We didn't prosecute in the old days because we couldn't, there wasn't the mechanism/technology/machinery/manpower to deal with it.
If there had been it would have been used back then.
And I suspect I am probably old enough.
Von - I have stomped off (no really I have as my Chicken Kiev is ready and I don't want the butter oozing out pointlessly and making the breadcrumbs soggy) but I know you are not a copper (well you told me you aren't anyway) so who is 'we' then - CPS? Just nice to know the considerations of the online mates one is ranting to If there had been it would have been used back then.
And I suspect I am probably old enough.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 15th September 19:40
Ken Figenus said:
vonhosen said:
We didn't prosecute in the old days because we couldn't, there wasn't the mechanism/technology/machinery/manpower to deal with it.
If there had been it would have been used back then.
An I suspect I am probably old enough.
I had more speeding stops in the 'old days' than now with such clever easy auto enforcement... They also smelt my breath, had a look at my tax disk and checked my tyres... They probably also checked the size of my pupils... But of course that is old hat, twee and pants.If there had been it would have been used back then.
An I suspect I am probably old enough.
I rest my case.
No really I do!Look at historical Policing plans from yester year up to today & how they've changed.
Roads Policing doesn't figure as much as it used to. Budgets get squeezed & hard choices made.
The Police are not funded how they used to be either. It used to be overspend this year to ensure you get more next year, if you underspent you didn't get thanked for it, you got a smaller budget because you didn't need it. Hence you'd have at certain times of the year a rush to spend the budget & officers out on overtime doing some road traffic initiative.
It's not like that anymore.
Ken Figenus said:
vonhosen said:
We didn't prosecute in the old days because we couldn't, there wasn't the mechanism/technology/machinery/manpower to deal with it.
If there had been it would have been used back then.
And I suspect I am probably old enough.
Von - I have stomped off (no really I have as my Chicken Kiev is ready and I don't want the butter oozing out pointlessly and making the breadcrumbs soggy) but I know you are not a copper (well you told me you aren't anyway) so who is 'we' then - CPS? Just nice to know the considerations of the online mates one is ranting to If there had been it would have been used back then.
And I suspect I am probably old enough.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 15th September 19:40
Raygun said:
vonhosen said:
That's not surprising, because the Police have more to deal with now.
So why waste time nicking people doing 36 in a 30? Or is that a priority?It's no drain on Police resources, which it would be if Police officers had to do it.
Much like Police used to be the people who issued parking tickets they were too busy to do it effectively. So in that case it was farmed out to local councils (as has happened with enforcing no left turns, U turns, bus lanes etc etc because they all still need somebody enforcing them)
vonhosen said:
Because it doesn't take Police officers to do it & it means Police officers don't have to do it.
It's no drain on Police resources, which it would be if Police officers had to do it.
Much like Police used to be the people who issued parking tickets they were too busy to do it effectively. So in that case it was farmed out to local councils (as has happened with enforcing no left turns, U turns, bus lanes etc etc because they all still need somebody enforcing them)
I'm on about camera vans and the pointing of the speed gun by a police constables.It's no drain on Police resources, which it would be if Police officers had to do it.
Much like Police used to be the people who issued parking tickets they were too busy to do it effectively. So in that case it was farmed out to local councils (as has happened with enforcing no left turns, U turns, bus lanes etc etc because they all still need somebody enforcing them)
I was building a chalk wall in a village recently, it was just where a 30 limit started after a long straight(60 zone) as I was working from the pavement the lorries and vans coming past me at 50 plus where frightening, these need nicking not Mrs Mangle doing 36 in her Nissan Micra.
Raygun said:
vonhosen said:
Because it doesn't take Police officers to do it & it means Police officers don't have to do it.
It's no drain on Police resources, which it would be if Police officers had to do it.
Much like Police used to be the people who issued parking tickets they were too busy to do it effectively. So in that case it was farmed out to local councils (as has happened with enforcing no left turns, U turns, bus lanes etc etc because they all still need somebody enforcing them)
I'm on about camera vans and the pointing of the speed gun by a police constables.It's no drain on Police resources, which it would be if Police officers had to do it.
Much like Police used to be the people who issued parking tickets they were too busy to do it effectively. So in that case it was farmed out to local councils (as has happened with enforcing no left turns, U turns, bus lanes etc etc because they all still need somebody enforcing them)
I was building a chalk wall in a village recently, it was just where a 30 limit started after a long straight(60 zone) as I was working from the pavement the lorries and vans coming past me at 50 plus where frightening, these need nicking not Mrs Mangle doing 36 in her Nissan Micra.
Police officers doing enforcement with a 'speed gun' are few & far between, where they are it is usually as a result of multiple complaints from the public or community specific problems.
Complain about your problem & they may address it when they have the capacity to.
C70R said:
Heaveho said:
Did driving at 90 mph on a DC feel like you were doing something dangerous? If it were inherently dangerous, every time someone did it, someone would be injured or killed. Lots of people do this day in, day out, without incident.
Not in and of itself, no. And, in fact, I've been much, much faster on public roads without any fear for myself or anyone else.However, I'm also not stupid enough to fail to understand that the Law is sacrosanct. If you feel really strongly and want to change it, form a lobby group with some likeminded individuals and approach a friendly MP for representation.
Moaning about the way it's enforced, particularly when said enforcement is clear and absolute, achieves nothing but to make you sound like a stroppy teenager.
jm doc said:
C70R said:
Heaveho said:
Did driving at 90 mph on a DC feel like you were doing something dangerous? If it were inherently dangerous, every time someone did it, someone would be injured or killed. Lots of people do this day in, day out, without incident.
Not in and of itself, no. And, in fact, I've been much, much faster on public roads without any fear for myself or anyone else.However, I'm also not stupid enough to fail to understand that the Law is sacrosanct. If you feel really strongly and want to change it, form a lobby group with some likeminded individuals and approach a friendly MP for representation.
Moaning about the way it's enforced, particularly when said enforcement is clear and absolute, achieves nothing but to make you sound like a stroppy teenager.
Clearly it hasn't reached the stage that everybody thinks it has gone too far & tipped the balance.
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