If you get 3 points on an auto licence (6 allowed total)

If you get 3 points on an auto licence (6 allowed total)

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Discussion

bigandclever

13,750 posts

237 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
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yodjone said:
Alright, because I read you dont get "banned", well you do. But in effect you just loose your license and have to re obtain it by taking test(s) again. and then obtain another 6 points for 2 years again. Obviously if you get 12 you get 'banned' But this was my understanding. Can't remember my sources but I did a lot of reading into it. But you're probably right. I'll look into it also, Thanks
insuranceforconvicteddrivers.org.uk said:
If an individual happens to be a new driver and his licence is revoked for accumulating 6 points, he would have to apply to get the licence reinstated. Once the application is sent in, a provisional licence would be issued, which comes with the penalty points endorsed. Thereafter, the applicant would have to take the theory and practical driving tests and only after successfully passing these tests will he or she be reissued the the full licence. The penalty points stay on until the third year from the date of conviction. However, the applicant is thereafter subjected to a longer probationary period that lasts for 3 years, and if he accumulates 12 penalty points within the 3-year period, he gets disqualified just like any other driver with similar penalty points. This basically means that the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995 is used just once at the time of revocation of the licence. Once the applicant passes the driving tests again, the legislation is not used from that point onwards.

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
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yodjone said:
...I commited to going through as my understanding initially as a new driver was you could do this when on amber,
Regardless of whether you get done for this, please cut up your licence and start again.


Here's a tip - if you see a green traffic light then the next thing it's going to do is change, and that change will require you to stop. So it shouldn't come as a surprise.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
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untakenname said:
I've never seen the logic of the six point limit for new drivers, surely as they are inexperienced then they should be given more leeway for making mistakes?
The idea is that those mistakes are made at a lower speed. And it works. I've seen it with my own kids and their mates. Absolutely terrified of getting done for speeding, so they don't.

benjijames28

1,702 posts

91 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
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Listen, what's done is done, if you get points and a fine then you take it on the chin. You will be paying for that mistake through your insurance premiums for several years.

Sat nav usually beep well before you approach any sort of speed camera, it's not just the road your not paying attention to.

We have all done it at some point, use it as a learning experience what ever the outcome.

ging84

8,827 posts

145 months

Tuesday 13th September 2016
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untakenname said:
I've never seen the logic of the six point limit for new drivers, surely as they are inexperienced then they should be given more leeway for making mistakes?
Those who make mistakes rarely get points.

Most points are for speeding, aggressive driving, mobile phone use, vehicle offences or no insurance.

You can be a truly awful driver who constantly makes mistakes, but as long as you can keep your phone in your pocket, speed under the limit and your vehicle insured and in good order, you will never be at risk of losing your license until you kill someone.
The only thing that can get someone like that off the road is enough insurance claims to make it uneconomical for them to drive.

BertBert

18,953 posts

210 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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OP as well as the good advice about green lights always turning to amber then red and you always being able to stop, I'd also suggest turning off the camera and speed limit beeps on your satnav. It's the wrong way to learn to be a better driver. Use your eyes and brain to work out what's going on, what the speed limit is, what the hazards are and what you should do about them.

Please engage brain and learn more about driving. I don't mean to be critical, but there's a lot to learn. Always a lot to learn - I'm thoroughly middle-aged, done a lot of driving, yet I still failed to be observant enough on the motorway this evening of the unmarked car with blues on.

Bert

yodjone

Original Poster:

6 posts

91 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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Oh thanks for the swift responses!

"There is no ban and never has been. It's a revocation not a ban. He's quite correct apart from the spelling of licence.

It isn't strange though. The revocation requires you to present yourself for a further test if you wish to continue driving."

So you think I may be correct in the research/statement that if a new driver was to obtain 6 points then in theory, they could apply again for driving test/license ? Just so I know for future clarification

8 days to go until I can stop worrying. Lesson definetly learnt for future. Here is an image of the camera for future reference (Sneaky one!!)

Also, Guessing you cant make the argument for camera visibility when its a traffic camera rather than a speed camera?

Edited by yodjone on Wednesday 14th September 00:08

benjijames28

1,702 posts

91 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
yodjone said:
Oh thanks for the swift responses!

"There is no ban and never has been. It's a revocation not a ban. He's quite correct apart from the spelling of licence.

It isn't strange though. The revocation requires you to present yourself for a further test if you wish to continue driving."

So you think I may be correct in the research/statement that if a new driver was to obtain 6 points then in theory, they could apply again for driving test/license ? Just so I know for future clarification

8 days to go until I can stop worrying. Lesson definetly learnt for future. Here is an image of the camera for future reference (Sneaky one!!)
.
Also, Guessing you cant make the argument for camera visibility when its a traffic camera rather than a speed camera?

Edited by yodjone on Wednesday 14th September 00:08
Your not learning. You wont get out of it if it flashed you.

JonV8V

7,175 posts

123 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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yodjone said:
Also, Guessing you cant make the argument for camera visibility when its a traffic camera rather than a speed camera?
What argument? No obligation to hang the bunting around a speed camera saying "look at me"

You already appear to want to be mr loophole, how to dodge stuff and "know your rights" when you clearly don't. I also don't know how you passed a test if you thought an amber gambler was acceptable, or how you forgot it wasn't in only a few months. There are plenty on here who seem capable of very swift skilful driving using experience, great observation and road craft where their heart beat hardly raises and which doesn't get them into trouble with the plod or into accidents. That's what makes a good driver more than (wild stereotype about to follow which may well not be you) razzing a nova with a stupid exhaust through red lights and doing front wheel burnouts in front of school kids. Put another way, the best driver you know won't be the one that takes the most risks to impress his mates [/lecture over]

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
yodjone said:
So you think I may be correct in the research/statement that if a new driver was to obtain 6 points then in theory, they could apply again for driving test/license ? Just so I know for future clarification.
It's fairly straightforward following licence revocation under the New Drivers Act:

1) Obtain provisional licence.
2) Apply for, sit and pass theory and practical tests.
3) Start driving again.

No ban, no reason you can't obtain a new licence, no stipulated minimum term that you must be off the road.

yodjone said:
Also, Guessing you cant make the argument for camera visibility when its a traffic camera rather than a speed camera?
Not a chance, and what makes you think there are any (let alone different) visibility and conspicuity rules for speed cameras ?

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
yodjone said:
So you think I may be correct in the research/statement that if a new driver was to obtain 6 points then in theory, they could apply again for driving test/license ? Just so I know for future clarification



Edited by yodjone on Wednesday 14th September 00:08
I would go with a Plan B if I were you.

By the way, do you have a black box for insurance purposes?

blueg33

35,574 posts

223 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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Can't help with the main thrust of the thread, but 2 seconds is an eternity when driving unless you are doing just a couple of mph

2lefthands

400 posts

138 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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SS2. said:
Not a chance, and what makes you think there are any (let alone different) visibility and conspicuity rules for speed cameras ?
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
2lefthands said:
SS2. said:
Not a chance, and what makes you think there are any (let alone different) visibility and conspicuity rules for speed cameras ?
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.
Doesn't it also say

To be clear, in terms of enforcement, the guidance “has no bearing on the enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law”

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
2lefthands said:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.
I'm not reading anything there which says enforcement cameras (of any sort) must be visible or conspicuous.

2lefthands

400 posts

138 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
2lefthands said:
SS2. said:
Not a chance, and what makes you think there are any (let alone different) visibility and conspicuity rules for speed cameras ?
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.
Doesn't it also say

To be clear, in terms of enforcement, the guidance “has no bearing on the enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law”
Correct, I posted the link to show that guidance does exist on visibility and conspicuity, not that a defence exists of guidance is not adhered too.

2lefthands

400 posts

138 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
SS2. said:
2lefthands said:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.
I'm not reading anything there which says enforcement cameras (of any sort) must be visible or conspicuous.
Then I suggest re-reading the document in its entirety. Pages 4 and 5 for a little help.

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
2lefthands said:
SS2. said:
2lefthands said:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.
I'm not reading anything there which says enforcement cameras (of any sort) must be visible or conspicuous.
Then I suggest re-reading the document in its entirety. Pages 4 and 5 for a little help.
Might I suggest you research the differences between the terms rules and guidance.

2lefthands

400 posts

138 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
quotequote all
SS2. said:
2lefthands said:
SS2. said:
2lefthands said:
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/docum...

The above link is the last government document I can find that relates to non-motorway fixed speed cameras. Shows visibility and distance visible from. This, however, does NOT cover red light cameras, which do not have to be clearly visible.
I'm not reading anything there which says enforcement cameras (of any sort) must be visible or conspicuous.
Then I suggest re-reading the document in its entirety. Pages 4 and 5 for a little help.
Thanks, but might I suggest you research the differences between the terms rules and guidance.
Cheers pal, I'll save the effort though. Guidance (and repeated use of the word should, and not must, in said guidance) would mean that the text contains, shock horror, guidance to local authorities, not rules to abide by.

Might I suggest you locate where I have pointed to any such rules in my posts on this topic? I have even clarified for the boy racer OP that red light cameras are not covered by the same visibility and conspicuity guidance outlined.

Jimmyarm

1,962 posts

177 months

Wednesday 14th September 2016
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yodjone said:
Sheepshanks - If you want the full back story (Which i have already posted on another forum) - I was approaching them on green on a straight road as they went to amber, I commited to going through as my understanding initially as a new driver was you could do this when on amber, i was then told later the official rule was to stop on amber, anyway, after I had commited to going my GPS beeped at me indicating there was a speed camera nearby, which made me limit my speed somewhat as going through in a dilemma, which is why there was a 1/2 second delay after it had gone to red and me passing it. Turns out it wasnt a speed camera it was a traffic light camera sneekily hidden behind the bushes to catch cars out. I was 100% expecting something in the post, so far 7 days and nothing #touchwood - So I was worrying but feeling slightly better now. I have to wait 14 calendar days is my understanding. I do not speed and have my GPS set to beep whenever I do this as a deterrant/annoyance. The annoying thing is that it happened on a road I never go to usually, and its only in these occasional 'new' areas where any misshaps may occur, the roads near me that im on 95% of the time there would be no issues (admittedly no excuse)

and before i have any goody 2 shoes saying how badly in the wrong i was, yes I learnt from the mistake, it took me off guard. I am a new driver and was just worrying over any potential risk. It is annoying if something bad happens and i'd be running a fine line on 3 points leeway for the next 20 months. After all, It took me a long time to actually commit to doing lessons and passing, admittedly I shouldve got it out the way @ 18.

Edited by yodjone on Tuesday 13th September 18:03
Did your driving instructor not teach you that, when approaching traffic lights you should always be prepared for them to change and drive accordingly ?

It sounds like your GPS is causing you a distraction, your focus should be on the road. Try planning your route using a map and leave the GPS off unless you get stuck at the end of the journey.