Any experience of Insurance Ombudsman? This sounds wrong?!
Discussion
I am currently battling to get a sensible insurance payout for a car of mine which was stolen.
The insurance company offered me about 50-60% of what it would cost me to buy a replacement vehicle of the same spec/age/mileage/condition etc. The 'engineer' who made me the offer explained the value he had come to was based on 'Glasses' valuation, I tried to explain that my car was insured for market value, which is what it would cost to replace and not some value in Glasses guide. He didn't seem to understand. Anyway, I rejected the offer and am awaiting a call back from them to discuss further.
In the mean time I was curious so I rang the insurance ombudsman and asked their advice, they informed me that when they receive a complaint about a cars value, they make a decision based on the value in 3 guides, Glasses, parkers and CAP and that the actual price it would cost me to replace the vehicle is irrelevant. I am amazed if this is true and I am sure up the creek without a paddle if so as having looked at the values of my car in Glasses/Parkers they are miles out and not even close to representative of the prices cars are actually selling for.
Does anyone have any experience of dealing with a situation like this?
Thanks
The insurance company offered me about 50-60% of what it would cost me to buy a replacement vehicle of the same spec/age/mileage/condition etc. The 'engineer' who made me the offer explained the value he had come to was based on 'Glasses' valuation, I tried to explain that my car was insured for market value, which is what it would cost to replace and not some value in Glasses guide. He didn't seem to understand. Anyway, I rejected the offer and am awaiting a call back from them to discuss further.
In the mean time I was curious so I rang the insurance ombudsman and asked their advice, they informed me that when they receive a complaint about a cars value, they make a decision based on the value in 3 guides, Glasses, parkers and CAP and that the actual price it would cost me to replace the vehicle is irrelevant. I am amazed if this is true and I am sure up the creek without a paddle if so as having looked at the values of my car in Glasses/Parkers they are miles out and not even close to representative of the prices cars are actually selling for.
Does anyone have any experience of dealing with a situation like this?
Thanks
I took a company there years ago, when they offered pennies for my total loss, the ombudsman got involved and gave the insurance co a deadline to sort it, deadline came and went, a couple of days later the insurance company realised they had missed it and couldn't be more helpful in trying to sort it, they paid what i wanted in the end. Original offer was about £2200, they came up to £7500.
I would raise a formal complaint with your insurance company and provide proof of values, eg autotrader ads.
I would raise a formal complaint with your insurance company and provide proof of values, eg autotrader ads.
JDiz said:
I took a company there years ago, when they offered pennies for my total loss, the ombudsman got involved and gave the insurance co a deadline to sort it, deadline came and went, a couple of days later the insurance company realised they had missed it and couldn't be more helpful in trying to sort it, they paid what i wanted in the end. Original offer was about £2200, they came up to £7500.
I would raise a formal complaint with your insurance company and provide proof of values, eg autotrader ads.
+1. The ombudsman cannot take any action until you have exhausted the Company's formal complaints procedure. I would raise a formal complaint with your insurance company and provide proof of values, eg autotrader ads.
I've only had to make 1 insurance claim.
I paid £6995 for the car and a year later they valued it at £4000 with repairs totalling £4400.
I printed off every single advert on AT and PH where the cheapest was £9000.
They agreed to fix it but the final bill came in at £7100 which is more than I originally paid for the car.
Surely if you can prove the car it worth more not what you think it should be worth then they should adhere to that.
I paid £6995 for the car and a year later they valued it at £4000 with repairs totalling £4400.
I printed off every single advert on AT and PH where the cheapest was £9000.
They agreed to fix it but the final bill came in at £7100 which is more than I originally paid for the car.
Surely if you can prove the car it worth more not what you think it should be worth then they should adhere to that.
The only real involvement the Ombudsman will have in a complaint about the valuing of a car is to check that the Insurer has followed the Ombudsman's guide on valuing a car eg checking the three guides to ascertain the value.
In effect that's all they will do, if the Insurer has not followed their guidance, they will instruct them to revalue the car following their guidance.
You can read the guidance on valuing cars here
https://web.archive.org/web/20150217163709/http://...
P.S You are not insured for the amound you declared as the value when you took out the cover, you are covered for the current market value which may be less, the mv being calculated using the FOS guidance
In effect that's all they will do, if the Insurer has not followed their guidance, they will instruct them to revalue the car following their guidance.
You can read the guidance on valuing cars here
https://web.archive.org/web/20150217163709/http://...
P.S You are not insured for the amound you declared as the value when you took out the cover, you are covered for the current market value which may be less, the mv being calculated using the FOS guidance
Hi said:
The 'engineer' who made me the offer explained the value he had come to was based on 'Glasses' valuation, I tried to explain that my car was insured for market value, which is what it would cost to replace and not some value in Glasses guide. He didn't seem to understand.
One of you isn't understanding...Your insurer are contractually bound to pay you a fair market value for your car immediately prior to the collision. They do that by referring to... price guides.
Hi said:
having looked at the values of my car in Glasses/Parkers they are miles out and not even close to representative of the prices cars are actually selling for.
Do you mean selling for? Or advertised for? Are you really comparing apples with apples?Unless it's a rare car chances are the guide prices are a lot closer to the real value for you car than what you have come up with browsing auto trader, they are partially self fulfilling.
If you start negotiating price with a dealer for a car, if they've not looked at the latest valuation for it already, they are going to at some point, and unless it's a specialist car i would be very surprised if any dealer would honestly turn down an offer at the top end of the guide price.
That's not to say your offer might not be low, but you need to pick your battles.
Fight that they are not offering you book value for you car, you should always win.
Fight them that they are basing your valuation on the wrong condition, you have a fair chance.
Fight them that the book prices are wrong you have little or no chance.
If the car is something rare or specialist and the guide price is not representative, then it should not have been insured for market value.
If you start negotiating price with a dealer for a car, if they've not looked at the latest valuation for it already, they are going to at some point, and unless it's a specialist car i would be very surprised if any dealer would honestly turn down an offer at the top end of the guide price.
That's not to say your offer might not be low, but you need to pick your battles.
Fight that they are not offering you book value for you car, you should always win.
Fight them that they are basing your valuation on the wrong condition, you have a fair chance.
Fight them that the book prices are wrong you have little or no chance.
If the car is something rare or specialist and the guide price is not representative, then it should not have been insured for market value.
dacouch said:
P.S You are not insured for the amound you declared as the value when you took out the cover, you are covered for the current market value which may be less, the mv being calculated using the FOS guidance
Although at the same time with some insurers if the market value is higher than the value you declared they will cap the payout at your declared estimate value. One to be especially wary of if you have a vehicle that is appreciating! Fastdruid said:
Although at the same time with some insurers if the market value is higher than the value you declared they will cap the payout at your declared estimate value. One to be especially wary of if you have a vehicle that is appreciating!
They may and try and cap it at the value you declared, however the Ombudsman is very clear that the value you declare is not a cap and if the market value of the vehicle is more than the declared value then the Insurer should pay you the higher amount.Essentially you are entitled to be put back in the same position you were before the accident. If they are playing silly buggers with the offers ask instead for them to replace the car for you. If they can get close to what you had in terms of condition, mileage, age and spec and they can get it say a grand cheaper it should make no odds to you.
Ask them to, I'll bet they won't. It's all part of a big game, some folk accept silly offers and that makes/saves them money. Just keep at them.
Ask them to, I'll bet they won't. It's all part of a big game, some folk accept silly offers and that makes/saves them money. Just keep at them.
elanfan said:
Essentially you are entitled to be put back in the same position you were before the accident. If they are playing silly buggers with the offers ask instead for them to replace the car for you. If they can get close to what you had in terms of condition, mileage, age and spec and they can get it say a grand cheaper it should make no odds to you.
They may not be able to, simply because the car doesn't exist in that mileage/condition/spec. They're under no obligation to replace it, just to pay you the value.This is coming up fairly regularly now on here and the first offer from the insurance company is routinely laughable.
I had to say "no" very firmly a couple of times, maybe three.
And spoke to various different people.
I just kept sending up to date Autotrader ads and PH ads.
Eventually the insurance went from £11k to £13.5k.
Unless you desperately need the car, there is no harm in saying no for a while, is there?
I had to say "no" very firmly a couple of times, maybe three.
And spoke to various different people.
I just kept sending up to date Autotrader ads and PH ads.
Eventually the insurance went from £11k to £13.5k.
Unless you desperately need the car, there is no harm in saying no for a while, is there?
I have to say when I wrote off a car (Porsche 928 GTS) 4 years ago the insurance company were fantastic to deal with. They didn'[t even bother with a low ball offer. The assessor was very knowledgable about cars in general and we had a good chat about cars. I had put together several ads from PH, Autotrader etc giving a decent value and he'd already done the same. We found an almost identical spec car with recent spend on servicing etc. so we both couldn't argue much about value.
jodypress said:
I have to say when I wrote off a car (Porsche 928 GTS) 4 years ago the insurance company were fantastic to deal with. They didn'[t even bother with a low ball offer. The assessor was very knowledgable about cars in general and we had a good chat about cars. I had put together several ads from PH, Autotrader etc giving a decent value and he'd already done the same. We found an almost identical spec car with recent spend on servicing etc. so we both couldn't argue much about value.
Same here when my ancient Saab got written off. The assessor emailed me asking what I thought it was worth, I sent him three adverts for similar cars on autotrader and they agreed to match the most expensive one. It wasn't a large pay-out so probably not worth their time in arguing.TooMany2cvs said:
One of you isn't understanding...
Your insurer are contractually bound to pay you a fair market value for your car immediately prior to the collision. They do that by referring to... price guides.
Indeed, but they should be looking at the middle value, or even the retail value, not the 'trade-in' value alone.Your insurer are contractually bound to pay you a fair market value for your car immediately prior to the collision. They do that by referring to... price guides.
My Dad's lexus got written off in a sandwich accident on the motorway (he was the meat).
He had a Lexus IS220d I think the market value for a similar condition car was about £6000 but he had just had a new engine fitted under warranty and he had a few modifications.
They offered him something like £7200 as a first offer and he just accepted it - I was very pleasantly surprised.
He had a Lexus IS220d I think the market value for a similar condition car was about £6000 but he had just had a new engine fitted under warranty and he had a few modifications.
They offered him something like £7200 as a first offer and he just accepted it - I was very pleasantly surprised.
To answer some questions above, yes I am comparing direct examples. I am looking to buy a direct replacement car, same age/mileage/condition, hopefully the same colour and the prices advertised are anywhere from about £18k to £22k, the insurance offered me £10k, the value of the car in Glasses/CAP/parkers is £12k. So even if they pay me the full value as per the parkers guide it isn't nearly enough to buy a replacement vehicle, it is highly unlikely I will be able to haggle a car down to £12k when it is advertised at £18k - £22k!
I spoke to the ombudsman again today (a chap who specialises in car claims said he would call me back today to discuss it) and he explained to me that it is indeed correct what I was told that they only use the parkers guides to value a car and that insurance is in no way meant to put you back in the position you were before the claim, they are only required to pay 'market value', by which they do not mean real market value but simply the value given to the vehicle in parkers/glasses guide. He said the actual price I could buy a like for like replacement car for is totally irrelevant and if the insurance payout is no where near enough to buy a replacement car then it is just tough luck.
I have to say I am incredibly surprised, I always assumed the ombudsman was meant to be the fair and reasonable one in all this!
I spoke to the ombudsman again today (a chap who specialises in car claims said he would call me back today to discuss it) and he explained to me that it is indeed correct what I was told that they only use the parkers guides to value a car and that insurance is in no way meant to put you back in the position you were before the claim, they are only required to pay 'market value', by which they do not mean real market value but simply the value given to the vehicle in parkers/glasses guide. He said the actual price I could buy a like for like replacement car for is totally irrelevant and if the insurance payout is no where near enough to buy a replacement car then it is just tough luck.
I have to say I am incredibly surprised, I always assumed the ombudsman was meant to be the fair and reasonable one in all this!
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff