Any experience of Insurance Ombudsman? This sounds wrong?!
Discussion
xjay1337 said:
If they are required to pay Market Value and market value is 18k and you're being offered £10k, then that's not right?
No it's not right in my opinion, but what the ombudsman is saying is that when insurance companies and the ombudsman say 'market value' they actually mean the value printed in parkers guide, they are not interested in what it would actually cost to replace the car. That's what 2 different people at the ombudsman have now told me.So the ombudsman said they should be paying me about £12k as that is the value of the car according to parkers/cap/glasses guides.
Hi said:
No it's not right in my opinion, but what the ombudsman is saying is that when insurance companies and the ombudsman say 'market value' they actually mean the value printed in parkers guide, they are not interested in what it would actually cost to replace the car. That's what 2 different people at the ombudsman have now told me.
So the ombudsman said they should be paying me about £12k as that is the value of the car according to parkers/cap/glasses guides.
You have spoken to morons at the ombudsman.So the ombudsman said they should be paying me about £12k as that is the value of the car according to parkers/cap/glasses guides.
Not sure why you are even bothering them now.
Just keep saying no to the insurer.
You HAVE to do this first AND then follow the full complaints procedure AT THE INSURER before you can even speak to a non-moron at the ombudsman.
In case you still want an ombudsman reference here's the link:
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...
"Most of the complaints we see involve disagreements about the “market” value of the vehicle. This generally means the price it would have sold for at a reputable dealership just before it was damaged or stolen. To reach a fair price, it’s important to check that the vehicle’s details have been recorded correctly.
To decide whether an insurer’s valuation is reasonable, we compare it with prices in specialist motor trade guides – called Parkers’, Glass’s and CAP. If the trade guides show significantly different prices, we’ll check the insurer hasn’t simply paid out the lowest.
We might also use engineers’ reports to help us decide whether the insurer’s valuation is reasonable. These can give useful information about the condition of the vehicle. We don’t usually find adverts helpful to judge a vehicle’s value, because the selling price usually turns out to be lower. But they may be if the car’s a classic or rare model."
They CHECK using Glass's but that doesn't mean that's the price they apply.
I am curious, how do things like parkers guide get their values?
Eg. for private sales, surely the only data available to them is the advertised price? No one tells them what it actually sold for.
Ditto for trade deals, does every dealer (must include all backstreet dealers for older cars) report what they got for a car? Doesn't sound likely to me!
Eg. for private sales, surely the only data available to them is the advertised price? No one tells them what it actually sold for.
Ditto for trade deals, does every dealer (must include all backstreet dealers for older cars) report what they got for a car? Doesn't sound likely to me!
If you have an agreed value policy, then you should be referring your insurers (and the ombudsman) to it as the first port of call.
If you don't have an agreed value policy, you need to somehow reconcile the apparent ENORMOUS difference between the three most well-respected guide prices and the adverts that you can find. A few questions that might help.
1. Are the adverts you're seeing representative of your car, and the model in general? It's no use expecting insurers to act on outliers, so you will need to present a far amount of evidence (look at Ebay completed listings).
2. Is your car a limited edition, classic or otherwise non-standard car, in such a way that it might be affecting the valuation? If so, I'd approach reputable owners' clubs and specialist traders to get a valuation.
3. Are the guides showing consistent prices for your car, and are you able to demonstrate that they are incorrect in some way? If your car is uncommon, it might be the case that the guides simply aren't correct - or that they are showing some erroneous data relating to specific years/models/specs.
Good luck, and please report back.
(A bit more detail, like the model of car, might help people better help you)
If you don't have an agreed value policy, you need to somehow reconcile the apparent ENORMOUS difference between the three most well-respected guide prices and the adverts that you can find. A few questions that might help.
1. Are the adverts you're seeing representative of your car, and the model in general? It's no use expecting insurers to act on outliers, so you will need to present a far amount of evidence (look at Ebay completed listings).
2. Is your car a limited edition, classic or otherwise non-standard car, in such a way that it might be affecting the valuation? If so, I'd approach reputable owners' clubs and specialist traders to get a valuation.
3. Are the guides showing consistent prices for your car, and are you able to demonstrate that they are incorrect in some way? If your car is uncommon, it might be the case that the guides simply aren't correct - or that they are showing some erroneous data relating to specific years/models/specs.
Good luck, and please report back.
(A bit more detail, like the model of car, might help people better help you)
DaveH23 said:
I've only had to make 1 insurance claim.
I paid £6995 for the car and a year later they valued it at £4000 with repairs totalling £4400.
I printed off every single advert on AT and PH where the cheapest was £9000.
They agreed to fix it but the final bill came in at £7100 which is more than I originally paid for the car.
Surely if you can prove the car it worth more not what you think it should be worth then they should adhere to that.
Can't quite decided if that's a win/win or a lose/lose situation.I paid £6995 for the car and a year later they valued it at £4000 with repairs totalling £4400.
I printed off every single advert on AT and PH where the cheapest was £9000.
They agreed to fix it but the final bill came in at £7100 which is more than I originally paid for the car.
Surely if you can prove the car it worth more not what you think it should be worth then they should adhere to that.
It does prove that who ever estimated the repairs needs some training though.
I ran the team responsible for dealing with FOS complaints at a large insurer and much of the advice given here is correct.
1) Never ring the FOS helpline. They're not adjudicators so cannot help
2) Decline the insurers offer and ask for their final response on the basis you are complaining about their valuation
3) Go to the FOS
Insurers should base their offer on the retail price of the vehicle using the relevant guides. From there, their engineer may deduct based on condition or in some cases (and with a good engineer), increase if they're aware of certain market conditions.
There is no such thing as agreed value unless you have a specific agreed value policy - insurers always use market value even if they ask you the price you paid for the vehicle. The onus is therefore on you to show your vehicle would cost more than their offer to replace by providing evidence of this. Evidence is not one slightly disillusioned sellers asking price - it is generally a consistent set of examples within the market. Even then, these are asking prices so the guides tend to be more accurate when FOS are adjudicating.
1) Never ring the FOS helpline. They're not adjudicators so cannot help
2) Decline the insurers offer and ask for their final response on the basis you are complaining about their valuation
3) Go to the FOS
Insurers should base their offer on the retail price of the vehicle using the relevant guides. From there, their engineer may deduct based on condition or in some cases (and with a good engineer), increase if they're aware of certain market conditions.
There is no such thing as agreed value unless you have a specific agreed value policy - insurers always use market value even if they ask you the price you paid for the vehicle. The onus is therefore on you to show your vehicle would cost more than their offer to replace by providing evidence of this. Evidence is not one slightly disillusioned sellers asking price - it is generally a consistent set of examples within the market. Even then, these are asking prices so the guides tend to be more accurate when FOS are adjudicating.
Just checked Parkers and they seem to be absolutely bottom-of-market for the car in question, and assuming very high miles...not sure what OP's odometer is showing.
It's also a tricky car to value due to the tech / reliability issues - a properly sorted one with ALL of the expected niggles/risks sorted is worth a lot more than one with a very basic history and probably storing up a lot of grief for a future owner.
Ombudsman's comment worries me though...
It's also a tricky car to value due to the tech / reliability issues - a properly sorted one with ALL of the expected niggles/risks sorted is worth a lot more than one with a very basic history and probably storing up a lot of grief for a future owner.
Ombudsman's comment worries me though...
PurpleMoonlight said:
The guides are not always perfect. Gather the evidence of real cost and present to your insurer and hope they see reason.
Quite true. My previous car was valued at £400 by Glasses guide. I sold it for £6000 privately, and it was the cheapest one for sale at the time.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff