Road traffic Act Section 172 advice required

[Nick Brough]

Hi

Section 172 advice required for a friend because obviously as I know a little bit about cars I will be an expert on the road traffic act lol....yes honestly it is for a friend

scenario from my friend.

On bank holiday monday, whilst trying to manoeuvre into a tight space in a private car park, my friend scuffed the car next to them. they stuck around for a few mins to see if anyone came back but they didn't. my friend was wary of any confrontation that might have ensued with the driver and had an obstreperous baby in the car who was impairing their concentration. they then left the car park and parked elsewhere. they returned to the scene on foot about 10-15 mins later to see if anyone had returned, to have a look at any damage and to record the licence plate. they noted a small dint (the size of a coin) but didn't get round to leaving a note/reporting it to the old bill within 24hrs. they recognise this was the wrong thing to do and were upset with themselves for their cowardice. they had this same thing happen to them at the ASDA in Queensferry but with a large scratch down the side of their own car; they didn't bother sorting to insurance they took it to a garage and got it sorted for £80. So they know what it is like to be on the receiving end of this type of thing and it isn't the type of thing they would ever do had they have been in their right mind. Two weeks passed and they received a section 172 citing failure to stop at the scene of an accident, failure to report an accident and failure to drive with due care and attention.

I don't understand why a 172 would be issued when the carpark was on private ground no injuries small dint etc

The 172 is from the old bill, it is a request for information i.e. confirmation of who was driving and also provides a blank form on which my friend might supply 'their side of events' (i.e. incriminate themselves)

Thanks for any advice

Regards

Nick

Edited by Nick Brough on Thursday 15th September 10:42

[Centurion07]

IIRC if it's open to the public then the RTA applies. Generally speaking.

[essayer]

It's quite likely to have been a private car park accessible by the public, meaning full RTA rules apply.

[Nick Brough]

Thanks but does a carpark dink really count as an accident?

[essayer]

Colliding with a parked car and damaging it sounds like careless driving to me.

Either way, damaging a vehicle is grounds to report under s170

[Centurion07]

Nick Brough said:

Thanks but does a carpark dink really count as an accident?

Why would it not?

Wouldn't YOU be pretty pissed if someone "dinged" your car in a car park but because the RTA didn't apply, or it's "just a ding", meant you had no recourse?

[agtlaw]

Centurion07 said:

IIRC if it's open to the public then the RTA applies. Generally speaking.

The issue is not whether the public could have access but whether in fact they utilised that access. Not a road or public place:

Privately owned land next to a private club; Pugh v Knipe (1972)
A community centre car park; Havell v DPP (1993)
A company car park used by staff and customers; Spence (1999)
An internal roadway at a university campus; Cowan v DPP (2013)

[agtlaw]

Nick Brough said:

Thanks but does a carpark dink really count as an accident?

Yes.

[Nick Brough]

Centurion07 said:

Why would it not?

Wouldn't YOU be pretty pissed if someone "dinged" your car in a car park but because the RTA didn't apply, or it's "just a ding", meant you had no recourse?

Yes I was on numerous occasions, but never saw it as a police matter but you live and learn.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Nick Brough said:

Thanks but does a carpark dink really count as an accident?

Unless he did it on purpose, in which case there are more serious charges that could apply.

[Centurion07]

agtlaw said:

Centurion07 said:

IIRC if it's open to the public then the RTA applies. Generally speaking.

The issue is not whether the public could have access but whether in fact they utilised that access. Not a road or public place:

Privately owned land next to a private club; Pugh v Knipe (1972)
A community centre car park; Havell v DPP (1993)
A company car park used by staff and customers; Spence (1999)
An internal roadway at a university campus; Cowan v DPP (2013)

I thought the "generally speaking" bit was enough of a caveat.

ISTR a thread on here where there was an incident in a Tesco car park and one side was trying to argue it was/wasn't covered by the RTA and was quite surprised by the outcome.

[agtlaw]

Centurion07 said:

I thought the "generally speaking" bit was enough of a caveat.

ISTR a thread on here where there was an incident in a Tesco car park and one side was trying to argue it was/wasn't covered by the RTA and was quite surprised by the outcome.

I wasn't disagreeing.

That was a mobile phone case. The law pertaining to using mobile phones whilst driving only applies to "a road", not "a road or other public place." The defendant was properly acquitted in that case.

[Centurion07]

Ah, there we go. Technicalities eh?

[Bigends]

I witnssed a fail to stop in our local Tescos. Left a note on the damaged car - later provided a witness statement - the driver was taken to court and convicted

[mac96]

Sadly, whatever the technicalities, the chance of anyone leaving a note on your car following a car park ding is about zero in my experience,perhaps that is just London though.