tenant refusing access for gas safety
Discussion
Is the gas meter outside in a box? Could you get someone to come and temporarily 'condemn' the system and shut off the supply as it can't be proven to be safe? We had a gas leak at our old house and the repair man turned off the system at the box and put all sorts of warning notices on it. Although they could be easily removed at least that way the tenant could be taking on a significant part of the liability if they decide to remove the warning notices and turn the gas back on.
Having tried to do the right thing, send letter by registered post (not signed for) saying that as you have been unable to arrange this at their convenience the gas safety will take place on x date and you/your agent will be in attendance to let them in.
As to quiet enjoyment brigade, the moment any certificate is out of date or there is a problem with the property they will expect the landlord to drop everything and attend to it immediately.
As to quiet enjoyment brigade, the moment any certificate is out of date or there is a problem with the property they will expect the landlord to drop everything and attend to it immediately.
told the tenant of the risks, its for their own benefit, they are in breach of contract etc but we wont enter without their permission to do the safety check.
We have discharged our liability if they wont allow access then we wont force it/ not allowed to force it.
All we can do is give them notice to leave.
We have discharged our liability if they wont allow access then we wont force it/ not allowed to force it.
All we can do is give them notice to leave.
Your AST should give you the ability to enter the property at 24 hrs notice, if the tenant tells you its not possible due to family party or some other good reason then accept it. If you are getting no answer at all then you can enter after 24 hrs I would just do it; you have done the right thing just make sure you accompany the plumber/engineer . If the tenant gets arsy about it explain that you are obliged to undertake these tests and if they insist then S21 notice.
Its your house you are allowed to keep it safe
Its your house you are allowed to keep it safe
The way Im understand it is that whilst it is a legal requirement to have the gas safety certificate, if the tenant does not provide the access that is required for this to be undertaken and you can prove that you have done all you can to get this access, then it is unlikely that you would get prosecuted.
My tenant is a similar PITA when it comes to access, constantly re-scheduling etc. The safety cert for lat year was a bit late, despite giving her over a month's notice and I expect this year's to follow a similar pattern. She does however keep the house immaculate.
My tenant is a similar PITA when it comes to access, constantly re-scheduling etc. The safety cert for lat year was a bit late, despite giving her over a month's notice and I expect this year's to follow a similar pattern. She does however keep the house immaculate.
Jasandjules said:
What matters more is what the Courts have ruled. And then whether or not it means entry without permission is trespasss and potentially various other criminal offences leading to your arrest and jail.....
So what have the courts ruled, this landlord has a legal obligation to have a cert in place, tomorrow they are in breach of that law.If you google total landlord you will receive the correct advice , How a landlord can gain access for Gas Safety Inspections
My tennant had rigged the gas meter .
by Tessa Shepperson
- See more at: http://www.totallandlordinsurance.co.uk/blog/2015/...
My tennant had rigged the gas meter .
by Tessa Shepperson
- See more at: http://www.totallandlordinsurance.co.uk/blog/2015/...
surveyor_101 said:
So what have the courts ruled, this landlord has a legal obligation to have a cert in place, tomorrow they are in breach of that law.
IIRC the last decision was that a tenant can still refuse entry for a gas safety check and the landlord is not in breach if that happens. They must take "reasonable steps" or somesuch to ensure compliance. And in any event, as I said earlier, it appears your tenants will grant access next week when they are back. However hopefully Wings will be along shortly to spell out to the letter what the current law is.Jasandjules said:
anothernameitist said:
Break in, check place, chuck all tenants stuff out in street, change locks.
Then no need to do any safety check.
Problem solved.
Rememebr to return bond too
Then await arrival of police, get arrested, spend time in cells. Get prosecuted. Go to jail.Then no need to do any safety check.
Problem solved.
Rememebr to return bond too
IIRC they can still refuse access for a gas safety check. However they have said they will sort it when they come back. So guess what is a prudent course of action?
SiH said:
Is the gas meter outside in a box? Could you get someone to come and temporarily 'condemn' the system and shut off the supply as it can't be proven to be safe? We had a gas leak at our old house and the repair man turned off the system at the box and put all sorts of warning notices on it. Although they could be easily removed at least that way the tenant could be taking on a significant part of the liability if they decide to remove the warning notices and turn the gas back on.
If tenant is paying utility bills, cannot do this. Only with permission of tenant can you cut and cap supply in rented property, unless owner live-in-landlord situation. The only people with power to unilaterally cut supply is area emergency operatives (formerly Transco).In your example, if warning notices were placed at meter, one would have outlined that a sealing disc had been placed at meter inlet. Turn the ECV all you want, you need to open the pipework and remove said disc to recommission property - illegal to do so unless competent (gas safe registered engineer or gas transporter, homeowner claiming gas competence cannot circumvent GS(I&U)R in cases of gas escape or pipework, MUST be approved person). Engineer would also need to inspect all pipework and appliances, passing responsibility back to homeowner/tenant.
OP, if you have sought permission and been denied, your legal duty of care is discharged to tenant, HSE will not be interested if you can prove attempt to have inspection carried out. If you hear nothing following the date they have given, you need to seek permission again. Their refusal, should it happen, would normally be a breach of a standard AST inspection clause and it may be worthwhile pointing this out to them.
Can I buy tickets to a tenant reporting a "crime" to the police.
T) I would like to report a crime please
P) What crime sir
T) My landlord let himself into the house I rent and carried out a gas safety check despite me telling him he couldn't
P) Err exactly what crime do you think he has committed
T) Trespass...yada..........yada .......quiet enjoyment....yada.....internet forum...
P) Right sir of course we will issue an international arrest warrant and hold a press conference
Its all complete nonsense , tenants resent paying rent, all landlords are money grabbing rotters, the only thing lower on the evolutionary scale below landlords are managing agents, (I only became one to see if it is possible to die of shame) if you need to do any emergency work or regulatory checks, give notice of when you are going to do it, if possible do it when it suits the tenant, so if you know he works nights for example book it in for 4:30 pm rather than 9:30 am.
If you have a militant "I know my rights" tenant who isn't prepared to be reasonable put up with them for as long as you can bear it, when it becomes too much S21 them, they are a bit like buses, there will be another one along in a minute
T) I would like to report a crime please
P) What crime sir
T) My landlord let himself into the house I rent and carried out a gas safety check despite me telling him he couldn't
P) Err exactly what crime do you think he has committed
T) Trespass...yada..........yada .......quiet enjoyment....yada.....internet forum...
P) Right sir of course we will issue an international arrest warrant and hold a press conference
Its all complete nonsense , tenants resent paying rent, all landlords are money grabbing rotters, the only thing lower on the evolutionary scale below landlords are managing agents, (I only became one to see if it is possible to die of shame) if you need to do any emergency work or regulatory checks, give notice of when you are going to do it, if possible do it when it suits the tenant, so if you know he works nights for example book it in for 4:30 pm rather than 9:30 am.
If you have a militant "I know my rights" tenant who isn't prepared to be reasonable put up with them for as long as you can bear it, when it becomes too much S21 them, they are a bit like buses, there will be another one along in a minute
7db said:
Check your AST -- mine has a clause in there specifically about access for gas safety checks - 24hrs notice, no right to refuse. I don't think you are absolved of your obligations to have a gas safety cert if they try to deny access.
Wrong. If you have documented proof of attempts to arrange access, your legal duty of care is discharged should tenant refuse access. You have to continue to attempt to arrange, but the tenant cannot then report landlord for non-compliance. See HSE website. I advise landlords on this matter at least once a week.I'll let the legals here comment on your specific clause regarding no right to refuse access, but it is overreaching. If it were for emergency access I can understand, but not annual checks. Again, HSE website.
My concern would be why he wont allow access.
I would simply drive by and check the house the best i can without accessing the land. If you know neighbours simply enquire about your tenant.
If you believe they are upto no good then i would push my look! doesn't take a lot for the police to knock on someone's door.
If its simply a problematic tenant, and their rent is upto date. Its more likely the house is a mess or trashed.
As such id want to know.
Get some random friend to go knock on the door when its known the tenant is in. They only have to pretend they have gone to wrong house.
See what they can figure out by simply seeing the door open, and if the correct person opens it.
If all is in order, make sure your requests for entry are all recorded, and simply sit back knowing you've done your bit.
Then serve appropriate notice when tenancy is nearing its end.
I would simply drive by and check the house the best i can without accessing the land. If you know neighbours simply enquire about your tenant.
If you believe they are upto no good then i would push my look! doesn't take a lot for the police to knock on someone's door.
If its simply a problematic tenant, and their rent is upto date. Its more likely the house is a mess or trashed.
As such id want to know.
Get some random friend to go knock on the door when its known the tenant is in. They only have to pretend they have gone to wrong house.
See what they can figure out by simply seeing the door open, and if the correct person opens it.
If all is in order, make sure your requests for entry are all recorded, and simply sit back knowing you've done your bit.
Then serve appropriate notice when tenancy is nearing its end.
7db said:
Check your AST -- mine has a clause in there specifically about access for gas safety checks - 24hrs notice, no right to refuse. I don't think you are absolved of your obligations to have a gas safety cert if they try to deny access.
You may have that in the AST but it doesn't mean it's enforceable. The lack of gas safety check alone is not a safety issue, so it's not grounds to force entry.
There is no requirement to have one in a privately owned home only a rented one.
As long as you can show you took reasonable steps to comply with the regulation then you are fine.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm...
There is no requirement to have one in a privately owned home only a rented one.
As long as you can show you took reasonable steps to comply with the regulation then you are fine.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm...
C70R said:
Lopey said:
How about get off your backside and do your job as a landlord? It's not the tenants responsibility to be available for the gas safety check, its yours. Book the gas engineer in, give tenant required notice, then get to the property and let him in yourself.
The amount of landlords who expect the tenants to deal with all the upkeep on a property they have no interest in is bizarre.
Worst advice of the day award, right here.The amount of landlords who expect the tenants to deal with all the upkeep on a property they have no interest in is bizarre.
Its up to the Landlord/agent to arrange, let me know when, and then letting plumber in/out. As i wouldn't be taking a day off to let a plumber in! (Who probably wont even turn up!)
caelite said:
Break in, pop a gas pipe off, burn the place to the ground, claim insurance money, buy a boat.
Forget every other bit of bad advice on this thread, the bit in bold is the worst possible thing you can do...Everyone knows that if it floats, f
ks or flys you should rent it by the hour... 
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