tenant refusing access for gas safety
Discussion
7db said:
Which statute?
Housing act 1988I would suggest the law is on the landlords side as -
The you.govmodel tenancy agreeement
Section 6
6.1 routine access
The landlord should give 24 hours notice for acces and the tenant should allow for section c inspections reuiqred by law but not limited to gas safe inspections etc
Edited by surveyor_101 on Wednesday 21st September 21:58
Hol said:
I was in that area two years later and decided to drive by the old neighbourhood.
The doctor had the same car, but the outside of the house was a total mess. It didn’t bode well for the inside.
I just put it down to long working hours and not enough free time.
So he would have plenty of money to pay for someone to cut the grass.The doctor had the same car, but the outside of the house was a total mess. It didn’t bode well for the inside.
I just put it down to long working hours and not enough free time.
MWM3 said:
Just to clarify the point regarding access to the property.
By signing a Tenancy Agreement a Tenant is agreeing to the terms contained within (as long as they are fair and reasonable) this includes granting Landlord access providing appropriate notice has been issued, usually 24 hours notice. So as a default position the Landlord or Agent can enter the property if they provide the notice to comply with the Tenancy Agreement.
However, a tenant can refuse access to the property even if the Landlord/agent has given the appropriate notice. They will of course be in breach of the contractual Agreement but the Landlord/Agent must respect their Tenants wishes and not enter the property if access is refused otherwise it is trespass and of course illegal under statue.
Remember Statute always overrides contract.
I used to work for a largish social landlord (in Scotland if it makes a difference). We had this problem regularly (5 to 10 per month). We took advice from specialist housing lawyers, Gassafe, H&S Executive, and the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations.By signing a Tenancy Agreement a Tenant is agreeing to the terms contained within (as long as they are fair and reasonable) this includes granting Landlord access providing appropriate notice has been issued, usually 24 hours notice. So as a default position the Landlord or Agent can enter the property if they provide the notice to comply with the Tenancy Agreement.
However, a tenant can refuse access to the property even if the Landlord/agent has given the appropriate notice. They will of course be in breach of the contractual Agreement but the Landlord/Agent must respect their Tenants wishes and not enter the property if access is refused otherwise it is trespass and of course illegal under statue.
Remember Statute always overrides contract.
The advice was that gas safety trumps all other considerations and that we were right to gain entry to the property to ensure safety if all other options had been exhausted. Most of our house had external gas meters so we simply rolled at on the notified date and time and if the tenant didn't give access to carry out the check, we capped the supply at the customer side of the meter. If the meter was inside, we gained entry to the house and capped the supply inside. The tenant was charged for the locksmith's time and for a senior member of staff to be present. This procedure was challenged a few times but was upheld as the best approach to a bad situation.
as said we will not enter as the tenant has refused. No its not been done yet. Its for a landlords property we look after. always good to check the PH view on things as well.
As confirmed by the recommendations on here we have written and protected ourselves/landlord by documenting all of our calls/letters and attempts to gain access by the contractor and the tenants refusal. We have recommended they don't use any gas appliances highlighting the safety risks.
Notice to quit will be given at the appropriate time.
As confirmed by the recommendations on here we have written and protected ourselves/landlord by documenting all of our calls/letters and attempts to gain access by the contractor and the tenants refusal. We have recommended they don't use any gas appliances highlighting the safety risks.
Notice to quit will be given at the appropriate time.
superlightr said:
as said we will not enter as the tenant has refused. No its not been done yet. Its for a landlords property we look after. always good to check the PH view on things as well.
As confirmed by the recommendations on here we have written and protected ourselves/landlord by documenting all of our calls/letters and attempts to gain access by the contractor and the tenants refusal. We have recommended they don't use any gas appliances highlighting the safety risks.
Notice to quit will be given at the appropriate time.
Worth noting I expect your landlords insurance is invalidated by this lack of cert.As confirmed by the recommendations on here we have written and protected ourselves/landlord by documenting all of our calls/letters and attempts to gain access by the contractor and the tenants refusal. We have recommended they don't use any gas appliances highlighting the safety risks.
Notice to quit will be given at the appropriate time.
I would book another visit notify them entry will be gained with keys due to your legal obligation to protect them from a falsity gas appliance.
If their out of assured period serve two months notice and start getting new tenants,
Fill your boots folks. 
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/09/28/gas-sa...
https://landlordlaw.leadpages.net/gas-access-kit/
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm
Let's go back to the original post.
Why did you wait for nearly 4 weeks after the contractor's second unresponded-to message before sending the second letter?
A mere 3 days before the current certificate expired. That wasn't too smart. Suppose they had been on holiday at that time so wouldn't have seen it?
Having left it so late, your third communication is only two days after the second. The discrepancy is stark.
Furthermore, the 24 hours notice cannot take effect before the letter could be deemed to have been received in the ordinary course of post.
Too late to meet the expiry date of the previous certificate. You would have been on shaky ground had you gone ahead without consent.
The resulting denial of access could be because they had already made arrangements to go away and expecting them to change their plans was unrealistic.
It's not as if they have refused all access. They have said they will sort it out on their return. That was only yesterday.
Maybe they will now do what they have said they will do. So give them that opportunity and follow up as necessary.
Please update us with the outcome.
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/09/28/gas-sa...
https://landlordlaw.leadpages.net/gas-access-kit/
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm
Let's go back to the original post.
superlightr said:
Summary Let property.
Wrote to T 5.8.16 informing contractor will contact them to book in gas safety which needs to be done before the 16.9.16
Contractor calls them twice and leaves messages 12.8.16 and 18.8.16
We write to tenant 13.9.16 asking them to call the contractor to book in the gas safety before the 16th
We write to the tenant 15.9.16 giving 24 hrs notice that contractor will enter to do gas safety
First contact from tenants - 16.9.16 tenants email to refuse access and say they will sort out on their return 21.9.16
What would you do? Gas safety cert for a rented property is a legal requirement with criminal liability for not having a valid cert.
As you have told us you are acting as agent for the landlord I'm surprised you started this thread. You should already know this stuff.Wrote to T 5.8.16 informing contractor will contact them to book in gas safety which needs to be done before the 16.9.16
Contractor calls them twice and leaves messages 12.8.16 and 18.8.16
We write to tenant 13.9.16 asking them to call the contractor to book in the gas safety before the 16th
We write to the tenant 15.9.16 giving 24 hrs notice that contractor will enter to do gas safety
First contact from tenants - 16.9.16 tenants email to refuse access and say they will sort out on their return 21.9.16
What would you do? Gas safety cert for a rented property is a legal requirement with criminal liability for not having a valid cert.
Why did you wait for nearly 4 weeks after the contractor's second unresponded-to message before sending the second letter?
A mere 3 days before the current certificate expired. That wasn't too smart. Suppose they had been on holiday at that time so wouldn't have seen it?
Having left it so late, your third communication is only two days after the second. The discrepancy is stark.
Furthermore, the 24 hours notice cannot take effect before the letter could be deemed to have been received in the ordinary course of post.
Too late to meet the expiry date of the previous certificate. You would have been on shaky ground had you gone ahead without consent.
The resulting denial of access could be because they had already made arrangements to go away and expecting them to change their plans was unrealistic.
It's not as if they have refused all access. They have said they will sort it out on their return. That was only yesterday.
Maybe they will now do what they have said they will do. So give them that opportunity and follow up as necessary.
Please update us with the outcome.
I read those links. Still not obvious what this mysterious statute is that prevents landlords from doing their duties.
I don't think that the tenant saying nothing at all, or even saying "no you can't come in" is enough if you are in fact able to come in (ie with your key) and have given what notice you need to give under your AST.
I don't think that the tenant saying nothing at all, or even saying "no you can't come in" is enough if you are in fact able to come in (ie with your key) and have given what notice you need to give under your AST.
7db said:
I read those links. Still not obvious what this mysterious statute is that prevents landlords from doing their duties.
I don't think that the tenant saying nothing at all, or even saying "no you can't come in" is enough if you are in fact able to come in (ie with your key) and have given what notice you need to give under your AST.
This is classic example of different items of legislation which have the potential to create problems. The issue here is that GSR Section 36 imposes the obligation on the landlord, not the tenant. Notwithstanding that the AST may have a clause which permits the LL, his agent or contractor, to enter upon 24 hours notice being given, doing so without the tenant's consent is likely to lead to conflict, especially given the non-emergency nature of the visit. Besides, the tenant has not refused all access, merely postponed it. I don't think that the tenant saying nothing at all, or even saying "no you can't come in" is enough if you are in fact able to come in (ie with your key) and have given what notice you need to give under your AST.
You might find these additional links of interest.
https://www.property118.com/tenant-refusing-gas-sa...
Forget the rent arrears aspect: it's not relevant to the point which we are discussing on this thread.
https://www.lettingaproperty.com/landlord/blog/201...
I remain of the opinion that the issue was partly of the OP's making. Given the potential for a breach of the GSR, waiting so long to react to the contractor's unsuccessful contact on 18.8.16 was unwise. I'm not convinced this would pass the HSE's due diligence test.
All this chat most useful in reminding me I have a gas check to do in November and to thank my lucky stars how nice my tenant is. Frankly it's a surprise he hasn't qualified as a gas engineer to do the checks himself he's such a nice guy.
Of course there's conflict. If there weren't conflict, we wouldn't need the law to resolve stuff.
Of course there's conflict. If there weren't conflict, we wouldn't need the law to resolve stuff.
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