Police Officer Smashes Windscreen
Discussion
I saw this earlier today.
I began wondering to myself: if the police had stopped me, and there was some issue about my identity and eligiblity to drive they wanted answering, and after instructing me to do so, would I:
- stay in my car filming (on the assumption the police will get bored, and go away?) but sort of knowing it's going to get messy, or
- get out of the car, and sort it out.
I then thought some more: if I had got out of my car with Mr PC Angry there, his next step is obivously going to be to handcuff me - its obvious from his body language, and I'm not going to hear anything from Plod on here to suggest otherwise. Any protest about this would no doubt be followed by further restraints (as per various youtube videos on the subject).
So I can see why getting out of the car might not be appealing to the occupant.
And I thought some more: but I am white, middle aged, and every conversation I've had with the Police in or around my car has been a very polite and courteous affair. But I can well imagine that this is not the case for the OP, equality training by the Police notwithstanding.
I then thought even more: for the car occupant, what is going to be the most effective way to highlight this issue?
- get out of the car, "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" to Mr PC Angry, suffer the indignity and loss of liberty of being handcuffed, await 15-20 minutes for ID issue to be resolved, to be told "be on your way and count yourself lucky" and the whole issue is just considered business as usual, or
- make a stand, film it, and let the media circus ensue.
So, all in all, I do support the car occupant's stance, but with a very firm substext that whilst I would never put myself in that situation, I would probably never find myself in that situation.
Also, the police have the duty, and indeed the public's expectation, to avoid this sort of nonsense, and his "hear no evil, see no evil" colleague lounging around is just as much a part of this culture as Mr Pc Angry.
The backstory would also be useful, as this has been interpretted purely from what is available.
Ian
I began wondering to myself: if the police had stopped me, and there was some issue about my identity and eligiblity to drive they wanted answering, and after instructing me to do so, would I:
- stay in my car filming (on the assumption the police will get bored, and go away?) but sort of knowing it's going to get messy, or
- get out of the car, and sort it out.
I then thought some more: if I had got out of my car with Mr PC Angry there, his next step is obivously going to be to handcuff me - its obvious from his body language, and I'm not going to hear anything from Plod on here to suggest otherwise. Any protest about this would no doubt be followed by further restraints (as per various youtube videos on the subject).
So I can see why getting out of the car might not be appealing to the occupant.
And I thought some more: but I am white, middle aged, and every conversation I've had with the Police in or around my car has been a very polite and courteous affair. But I can well imagine that this is not the case for the OP, equality training by the Police notwithstanding.
I then thought even more: for the car occupant, what is going to be the most effective way to highlight this issue?
- get out of the car, "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" to Mr PC Angry, suffer the indignity and loss of liberty of being handcuffed, await 15-20 minutes for ID issue to be resolved, to be told "be on your way and count yourself lucky" and the whole issue is just considered business as usual, or
- make a stand, film it, and let the media circus ensue.
So, all in all, I do support the car occupant's stance, but with a very firm substext that whilst I would never put myself in that situation, I would probably never find myself in that situation.
Also, the police have the duty, and indeed the public's expectation, to avoid this sort of nonsense, and his "hear no evil, see no evil" colleague lounging around is just as much a part of this culture as Mr Pc Angry.
The backstory would also be useful, as this has been interpretted purely from what is available.
Ian
I'm not going to argue over this particular incident but I remember watching one on police camera action a while back where a women alone refused to get out the car and was calling 999 to confirm the officer was a genuine police officer.
The officer in question was screaming at her to get out the car and when she didn't (on the phone o the police to confirm his identity (unmarked police car) the copper proceeded to put the window through and drag her out the car. Was a way over reaction. I don't envy the police and wouldn't want to do their job but sometimes they don't half seem to be overly aggressive and over react. I also remember a case of mistaken identity after they tasered some innocent bloke walking down the street with his kid doing nothing to threaten anybody.
The officer in question was screaming at her to get out the car and when she didn't (on the phone o the police to confirm his identity (unmarked police car) the copper proceeded to put the window through and drag her out the car. Was a way over reaction. I don't envy the police and wouldn't want to do their job but sometimes they don't half seem to be overly aggressive and over react. I also remember a case of mistaken identity after they tasered some innocent bloke walking down the street with his kid doing nothing to threaten anybody.
I'm not sure that's correct - I was reading it as a stop and search:
"is not voluntary. If you do not cooperate the officer can use reasonable force to conduct the search.
Police officers must use stop and search powers fairly, responsibly and without discrimination."
http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Frequently-As...
But in any event, why wouldn't you cooperate?
"is not voluntary. If you do not cooperate the officer can use reasonable force to conduct the search.
Police officers must use stop and search powers fairly, responsibly and without discrimination."
http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Frequently-As...
But in any event, why wouldn't you cooperate?
swindler said:
I'm not sure that's correct - I was reading it as a stop and search:
"is not voluntary. If you do not cooperate the officer can use reasonable force to conduct the search.
Police officers must use stop and search powers fairly, responsibly and without discrimination."
http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Frequently-As...
But in any event, why wouldn't you cooperate?
Yes it is correct"is not voluntary. If you do not cooperate the officer can use reasonable force to conduct the search.
Police officers must use stop and search powers fairly, responsibly and without discrimination."
http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Frequently-As...
But in any event, why wouldn't you cooperate?
Not sure what they were searching for. A traffic stop for documents or drving matters isnt stop and search
Bigends said:
..everything else can be done through the side window...
Yes, I did a few years ago, asked for ID got shown it then got out. PC asked why I was being arsey, I told him I had c£40k in cash in the van and he was fine, told me I did the right thing.A few months ago two PCs came into my work asked to see someone, after some discussion due to one of them giving the wrong name (even though he had it in his book) I asked for some ID, PC in a tee shirt with no number on.
His response - "I'll show you my tazer".
Some PCs have an attitude problem, and I'd say the PC in the OPs link has a big attitude problem.
To my mind it makes no difference that the driver didn't get out of the car, there is no way that the PC should have acted like that.
swindler said:
But in any event, why wouldn't you cooperate?
He did cooperate. He took his key out of the ignition and placed it on his dash when the angry policeman said he wanted him out of the car so he wouldnt make off. The angry policeman told the driver he wanted him out of the car so he could check the driver's details. The driver correctly informed angry policeman that there was no obligation for him to get out of his car and all checks could be completed with him sat in his car.
What I dont understand is why the angry man started smashing the driver's windscreen. He wasnt making off or threatning to
The car was stopped. Check his details and if there is a case to answer, tell him he is under arrest and at that point if he refuses to get out of the car, angry man will be somewhat justified in smashing up the car to extract driver.
Looks like Roid rage to me.
Perhaps if some people had experienced what it's like to be negatively profiled by the police and constantly pulled / searched despite never doing anything wrong, they would understand why some people can be a little less reluctant to step out the vehicle in situations like this.
I think the best one i had was when i was washing my car outside on the street and the police "pulled me" to check me and my vehicle for drugs / weapons because apparantly washing my car came under "acting suspiciously"
Or the time i was accused of driving too quickly round a roundabout (genuinely was driving like a granny because the fuel light was on)
The copper soon changed his tune when i suggested i wasn't driving too quickly and i'm sure the dash cam footage would verify that.
I think the best one i had was when i was washing my car outside on the street and the police "pulled me" to check me and my vehicle for drugs / weapons because apparantly washing my car came under "acting suspiciously"
Or the time i was accused of driving too quickly round a roundabout (genuinely was driving like a granny because the fuel light was on)
The copper soon changed his tune when i suggested i wasn't driving too quickly and i'm sure the dash cam footage would verify that.
Something must have happened prior to the beginning of the video.
The Policeman was very animated and aggressive right from the start of the video, which is probably why the driver refused to get out of the vehicle.
Whilst I agree the Policeman appeared to be acting disproportionately,there's only one side of a story shown in that video.
The Policeman was very animated and aggressive right from the start of the video, which is probably why the driver refused to get out of the vehicle.
Whilst I agree the Policeman appeared to be acting disproportionately,there's only one side of a story shown in that video.
XCP said:
Bigends said:
This incident isn't dissimilar to the post earlier this year of the officer apparently out of control batoning the passenger at St Pancras underground and another officer just looking on - not wanting to get involved
A bit early to draw any conclusions if you ask me. Elroy Blue said:
Bigends said:
Hes under NO obligation to get out of the car until under arrest - everything else can be done through the side window -may take longer but thats how it is
Theres numerous reasons why that window would go in. You'd know that having done 30yrs. Apparently. As I said earlier - if he arresting him -then anything goes - not sure that was the case here -provisional licence holder?? Justification for that...do behave
Its not the cops fault = this is a result of pi** poor training, supervision and mentoring by more experienced officers who often have no more idea themselves
Lets assume it was susoected he only had a provisional licence - what grounds would you have for putting the windows in
Edited by Bigends on Sunday 18th September 20:16
Edited by Bigends on Sunday 18th September 20:18
I was NEVER on traffic - I was an area car driver and never put a single car window in other than to gain entry for those locked out.
Just remembered this not dissimlar incident that cost the tax payers a bomb a few years back
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552186/Po...
Just remembered this not dissimlar incident that cost the tax payers a bomb a few years back
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552186/Po...
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff