Police Officer Smashes Windscreen
Discussion
This is how it should go down
https://youtu.be/7j-ttHe25WM
The video in the OP incident was posted from a So Solid Crew account so it may be a similar situation, a lot of young rappers who have nice cars get pulled over loads and film them.
https://youtu.be/7j-ttHe25WM
The video in the OP incident was posted from a So Solid Crew account so it may be a similar situation, a lot of young rappers who have nice cars get pulled over loads and film them.
Back in the early 90's I worked with a young Royal Marine who even by Marine standards was not the sharpest tool, anyway whilst stood at a Vehicle Check Point supporting the RUC in Northern Ireland he was the "Stop Officers" check man this basically meant that his sole job was to stand at the RUC man's shoulder and look after his close protection. Anyway a stop took place and the vehicle flagged down was a known vehicle for an active PIRA man, we're not talking a man with a chip on his shoulder, a man with attitude, or someone that was simply a bit awkward but a man with known terrorist links, who was likely to be armed, and had almost certainly killed.
The RUC man was cool as a cucumber, and tapped on the window, he was ignored. He tapped again & was ignored. He raised his voice and told the driver to open his window: ignored & turns up radio. He then writes on his pad "OPEN THE WINDOW" and places it directly in the drivers field of vision as he's sat staring straight ahead: ignored. He then adds under what he had already written "OR I'LL BREAK IT" this got the slightest smirk and the driver increased even further the volume of Belinda Carlisle. The RUC man then turns to Royal who is stood at his shoulder and says "Put the window in" Royal pushes him out the way and quick as a flash in one fluid movement puts the butt of an SA80 straight through the drivers window into the side of PIRA man's face and breaks his jaw in three places. The RUC man is now clamering back into position and shouting "The fecking back window you idiot"
Anyway the result was an Ambulance trip, operation, wired jaw, ABH charge, and civilian court appearance. Luckily Royal was acquitted, the Corp stood by their man and he soldiered on. But with the exception of Royal getting a bit carried away the whole incident was a clear demonstration of how a professional Police Officer should act. He was faced with a known killer, a man who would have wanted nothing more than to see a bullet in the RUC mans head but the stop and his conduct was calm, non aggressive, and professional. A million miles from the hyper active gibbon in a uniform who was jumping around and screaming in that video, at the very least he needs retraining but I'd go so far as to say he needs a career change as there is no excuse for conduct like that.
The RUC man was cool as a cucumber, and tapped on the window, he was ignored. He tapped again & was ignored. He raised his voice and told the driver to open his window: ignored & turns up radio. He then writes on his pad "OPEN THE WINDOW" and places it directly in the drivers field of vision as he's sat staring straight ahead: ignored. He then adds under what he had already written "OR I'LL BREAK IT" this got the slightest smirk and the driver increased even further the volume of Belinda Carlisle. The RUC man then turns to Royal who is stood at his shoulder and says "Put the window in" Royal pushes him out the way and quick as a flash in one fluid movement puts the butt of an SA80 straight through the drivers window into the side of PIRA man's face and breaks his jaw in three places. The RUC man is now clamering back into position and shouting "The fecking back window you idiot"
Anyway the result was an Ambulance trip, operation, wired jaw, ABH charge, and civilian court appearance. Luckily Royal was acquitted, the Corp stood by their man and he soldiered on. But with the exception of Royal getting a bit carried away the whole incident was a clear demonstration of how a professional Police Officer should act. He was faced with a known killer, a man who would have wanted nothing more than to see a bullet in the RUC mans head but the stop and his conduct was calm, non aggressive, and professional. A million miles from the hyper active gibbon in a uniform who was jumping around and screaming in that video, at the very least he needs retraining but I'd go so far as to say he needs a career change as there is no excuse for conduct like that.
Dizeee said:
Interesting. The whole event would be seen in a different light completely if the officer had done the most simplest of things. All he had to say was:
"you have a provisional driving licence and are driving not in accordance with it - therefore your car is going to be seized. You need to vacate it in order for that to happen, and if you refuse, you will be arrested for obstructing a police officer".
At which point I would (if I were in that position, and in some ways what the chap did) state my name, address and the fact that I have a full driving licence and the requisite insurance, tax, mot etc. It would then be the officers job to verify that information, NOT beat the f"you have a provisional driving licence and are driving not in accordance with it - therefore your car is going to be seized. You need to vacate it in order for that to happen, and if you refuse, you will be arrested for obstructing a police officer".
k out of my car! Dizeee said:
At the point at which the driver then failed to co-operate, he is verbally arrested through the window, and then, everything you see would be justified and inarguable. Doesn't matter if the driver, or anyone else doesn't "agree" with that course of action, the fact is that course of action is legal and justified, you don't get the choice at the time to refuse to be arrested, you question it later.
So it's ok to arrest someone based upon false information or assumption is it?Dizeee said:
The fact the officer seem's flummoxed and unsure what to do is the big mistake here. He has acted in panic, almost in fear of losing face, without taking the time to work out a water tight plan of approach. He had all the time in the world as the driver wasn't going anywhere. He could have gone back to his patrol car and sat in it, having a discussion with his colleague, had he wanted to. Instead he acted on impulse.
The fact is that the chap should't even be wearing the uniform, the nasty aggressive little st.The act of not listening to a pretty reasonable request makes the guy look very dodgy - did he think it would go better that way?. However are any drugs involved in that clip? Copper looks very edgy and is hammering down on his chewing gum - on his way to the Police Ball maybe for a bop? 
TeamD said:
The fact is that the chap should't even be wearing the uniform, the nasty aggressive little st.
All your remarks have already been answered in my comments. t.The driver had a provisional driving licence, the power to seize the car exists and can be used, the officer cocked up and didn't use that to his advantage.
Assumption or false information - happens all the time. If a constable reasonably suspects that an offence has been committed, etc etc etc. The driver didn't do anything to assist himself, all he did was confirm that he had a provisional licence.
Boycie999 said:
No one actually knows the full circumstances of the incident and what led up to it, we can just guess and then post on here how you feel about the police based on limited knowledge ...
From the short clip you can work out a few things.
A. The stop is not conventional as the panda is blocking the road at an angle so I would assume that something has happened before for it to end like that, maybe the bloke failed to stop or tried to make off.
B. From listening to it I would think the officer suspects that the driver is disqual so needs to deal with that offense. Seeing as the tube doesn't want to open the window or get out of the car he isn't exactly going to be dealing with him by way of an interview at the side of the road and a summons is he. All he needs it to suspect an offence has been committed and suspect that person of it. The fact he has got the wrong persons is beside the point he still has the power to make the arrest and to use force to make that arrest. The driver didn't decide to identify himself until he was out of the car so its just unfortunate that it was mistaken identity.
C. Now smashing the windscreen isn't exactly conventional but doing a partially open drivers door isn't going to work, he will just look even more stupid as his useless baton just bounces off it. I agree sawing the window open looks extreme but its up to that officer to justify his actions based on his own assessment. No one can justify it for him.
I don't normally comment on the site a lot and certainly not on topics like this but it grips my st when the majority of what you read is peoples ill informed opinion on what the police officer has done when you haven't done his job so you would have no idea what you would do in the same circumstances. He may have done wrong. He may not....
At which point did the blue monkey state that the chap was under arrest? (Hint: He didn't)From the short clip you can work out a few things.
A. The stop is not conventional as the panda is blocking the road at an angle so I would assume that something has happened before for it to end like that, maybe the bloke failed to stop or tried to make off.
B. From listening to it I would think the officer suspects that the driver is disqual so needs to deal with that offense. Seeing as the tube doesn't want to open the window or get out of the car he isn't exactly going to be dealing with him by way of an interview at the side of the road and a summons is he. All he needs it to suspect an offence has been committed and suspect that person of it. The fact he has got the wrong persons is beside the point he still has the power to make the arrest and to use force to make that arrest. The driver didn't decide to identify himself until he was out of the car so its just unfortunate that it was mistaken identity.
C. Now smashing the windscreen isn't exactly conventional but doing a partially open drivers door isn't going to work, he will just look even more stupid as his useless baton just bounces off it. I agree sawing the window open looks extreme but its up to that officer to justify his actions based on his own assessment. No one can justify it for him.
I don't normally comment on the site a lot and certainly not on topics like this but it grips my s
t when the majority of what you read is peoples ill informed opinion on what the police officer has done when you haven't done his job so you would have no idea what you would do in the same circumstances. He may have done wrong. He may not....Rovinghawk said:
Alpinestars said:
It makes it even worse that he is on camera, shows a real lack of control.
What makes it sadder is that the only time this fine upstanding individual has ever fallen below the very high standards required was when a camera happened to be pointed at him. Unfortunate coincidence.Dizeee said:
TeamD said:
The fact is that the chap should't even be wearing the uniform, the nasty aggressive little st.
All your remarks have already been answered in my comments. t.The driver had a provisional driving licence, the power to seize the car exists and can be used, the officer cocked up and didn't use that to his advantage.
Assumption or false information - happens all the time. If a constable reasonably suspects that an offence has been committed, etc etc etc. The driver didn't do anything to assist himself, all he did was confirm that he had a provisional licence.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Equally so the statement by the copper that he thought that the chap was a flight risk. FFS, his way forwards is blocked by the police car, the road appears to be a bit tricky to do a 3 point turn on with parked cars etc. WTF is he gonna do? A speedy reverse 180 a bit further down the road? C'mon Boycie999, stop digging, plod was out of order and your methods for contriving a legal mechanism to allow it embarrasses you.TooLateForAName said:
Anyone like to comment on the knife the PC uses? Is that legal?
If it's lockable or has a blade over a certain length then technically illegal, however, it's widely accepted that multi tools are carried by police officers in line with their work, as a screwdriver/saw would be carried by a handyman. They can often save lives for example cutting seatbelts off, cutting ligatures e.t.c.TeamD said:
Have you been watching the same video? The chap does not say that he has a provisional licence, that's the coppers conclusion. Let's face it, if the chap did only have a provisional then the coppers WOULD have arrested him after this little pantomime instead he was NOT arrested at all...go figure.
The radio operator states he has a provisional licence - that's the conclusion and something the driver then admits to.You don't arrest anyone for having a provisional licence.
You have just revealed the IQ of a retarded flea, hence I will now ignore any further comments from you.
Dizeee said:
TeamD said:
Have you been watching the same video? The chap does not say that he has a provisional licence, that's the coppers conclusion. Let's face it, if the chap did only have a provisional then the coppers WOULD have arrested him after this little pantomime instead he was NOT arrested at all...go figure.
The radio operator states he has a provisional licence - that's the conclusion and something the driver then admits to.You don't arrest anyone for having a provisional licence.
You have just revealed the IQ of a retarded flea, hence I will now ignore any further comments from you.
Your insults are rather substandard and since you don't know me at all your assumption of what my IQ may or may not be is flawed...leave it to say that it is guaranteed to be considerably greater than yours.
Edited by TeamD on Monday 19th September 15:27
On what basis could it be justified?
Lets say the driver had already led them on a chase and possible endangered them (hence copper being emotional)
The person who they thought it was (i.e maybe the reg owner)has a history of driving off/driving dangerously
The driver wouldn't confirm his ID
They got confirmation he (or the person they thought he was) was not allowed to drive
They thought he might drive off.
Even then I would have thought the best thing to do would be to let him attempt to drive off then get him.
I suspect the actions could be justified if we knew more but the copper did get a bit overly emotional.
Lets say the driver had already led them on a chase and possible endangered them (hence copper being emotional)
The person who they thought it was (i.e maybe the reg owner)has a history of driving off/driving dangerously
The driver wouldn't confirm his ID
They got confirmation he (or the person they thought he was) was not allowed to drive
They thought he might drive off.
Even then I would have thought the best thing to do would be to let him attempt to drive off then get him.
I suspect the actions could be justified if we knew more but the copper did get a bit overly emotional.
TeamD said:
Equally so the statement by the copper that he thought that the chap was a flight risk. FFS, his way forwards is blocked by the police car, the road appears to be a bit tricky to do a 3 point turn on with parked cars etc. WTF is he gonna do? A speedy reverse 180 a bit further down the road? C'mon Boycie999, stop digging, plod was out of order and your methods for contriving a legal mechanism to allow it embarrasses you.
There is a longer video on Mr Fontana's facebook page. In it you can see him take his key out of the ignition and place it on the dash when angry man said he wanted him out of the car so he wouldn't make off. Never mind that Mr Fontana's car was blocked in.At no point did angry man ask for a drivers licence or any other form of ID for that matter. He simply assumed Mr Fontana was TJ. (Don't they all look the same) and proceeded to vandalise the car when Mr Fontana exercised his right not to get out of his car and rather preferred to be dealt with whilst sat in his car.
The culture of making excuses and covering up for mates when you can clearly see that something isn't right is a big problem in the police services. IMHO it is a bigger problem than actual wrongdoing by officers.
dondadda said:
TeamD said:
Equally so the statement by the copper that he thought that the chap was a flight risk. FFS, his way forwards is blocked by the police car, the road appears to be a bit tricky to do a 3 point turn on with parked cars etc. WTF is he gonna do? A speedy reverse 180 a bit further down the road? C'mon Boycie999, stop digging, plod was out of order and your methods for contriving a legal mechanism to allow it embarrasses you.
There is a longer video on Mr Fontana's facebook page. In it you can see him take his key out of the ignition and place it on the dash when angry man said he wanted him out of the car so he wouldn't make off. Never mind that Mr Fontana's car was blocked in.At no point did angry man ask for a drivers licence or any other form of ID for that matter. He simply assumed Mr Fontana was TJ. (Don't they all look the same) and proceeded to vandalise the car when Mr Fontana exercised his right not to get out of his car and rather preferred to be dealt with whilst sat in his car.
The culture of making excuses and covering up for mates when you can clearly see that something isn't right is a big problem in the police services. IMHO it is a bigger problem than actual wrongdoing by officers.
Pothole said:
It's on a par with making potentially career-ending judgements based on a few minutes of video on social media, I'd say.
How is making a judgement/opinion on a forum career ending for anyone? The only career ending thing was the roid rage man using completely unnecessary force on the property of someone he wrongly suspected of being a disqualified driver. Why didnt he just ask for ID like normal policemen do. What would he have achieved by the driver getting out of the car? Handcuffed him and humiliated him a little bit?
The video is explicit. You all like to go on about its only a few minutes but those few minutes are enough for any reasonable person to see that it was execessive force.
Was the angry man planning to extract the driver through that small hole in the windscreen? He is a lunatic IMHO and like many have said thank goodness he doesnt carry a lethal weapon.
TeamD said:
Equally so the statement by the copper that he thought that the chap was a flight risk. FFS, his way forwards is blocked by the police car, the road appears to be a bit tricky to do a 3 point turn on with parked cars etc. WTF is he gonna do? A speedy reverse 180 a bit further down the road? C'mon Boycie999, stop digging, plod was out of order and your methods for contriving a legal mechanism to allow it embarrasses you.
Especially with the keys on the dash. Maybe the smart PC was a pistonhead and knew that the car was keyless go?Have we had the comparisons to the guy who smashed the pensioners window?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/05/po...
Good move in the end.
Either he's got some American blood in him somewhere down the line, or he's following the footsteps of the above and looking for a pay out.
Probably just a bit mental, though.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/05/po...
Good move in the end.
Either he's got some American blood in him somewhere down the line, or he's following the footsteps of the above and looking for a pay out.
Probably just a bit mental, though.
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