Police Officer Smashes Windscreen

[carinaman]

Can PC Savage and his pen knife be redeployed to a Child Protection Unit in Rotherham?

[surveyor_101]

carinaman said:

Can PC Savage and his pen knife be redeployed to a Child Protection Unit in Rotherham?

You been there recently, he would stick out like a sore thumb!

[Greendubber]

surveyor_101 said:

Bigends said:

Lots of rules to stop you doing it as well - use of force is down to YOU and nobody else

Avon and Somerset cuff single crew no matter how pleasant snd compliant.

There is a thinking that if the person turned nasty in the rear and attacked you while driving it could be messy.

Its policy in our force.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

surveyor_101 said:

Bigends said:

Lots of rules to stop you doing it as well - use of force is down to YOU and nobody else

Avon and Somerset cuff single crew no matter how pleasant snd compliant.

There is a thinking that if the person turned nasty in the rear and attacked you while driving it could be messy.

Its policy in our force.

Really? that you WILL handcuff all persons under arrest without justification?

What do you put on the use of force form if theyre compliant with no risk of fighting or escaping

[anonymous-user]

No use of force form for compliant, front handcuffing.

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

surveyor_101 said:

Bigends said:

Lots of rules to stop you doing it as well - use of force is down to YOU and nobody else

Avon and Somerset cuff single crew no matter how pleasant snd compliant.

There is a thinking that if the person turned nasty in the rear and attacked you while driving it could be messy.

Its policy in our force.

Really? that you WILL handcuff all persons under arrest without justification?

What do you put on the use of force form if theyre compliant with no risk of fighting or escaping

When conveying yes.

We've actually not completed any use of force forms for about 5 years, not that we did one for compliant cuffing anyway.

[Bigends]

La Liga said:

No use of force form for compliant, front handcuffing.

..and if the subject becomes non complainant purely because theres no need for cuffs (under the conflict resolution model) and there is no evidence of previous behaviour to justify the use of cuffs? I'd certainly have the hump if I was detained for a non violent incident ( fraud etc) and you wanted to cuff me with no justification I'm still not sure why the application of cuffs is for the prisoners safety as oft quoted on Police telly shows

Edited by Bigends on Tuesday 27th September 22:51

[Cat]

Bigends said:

Really? that you WILL handcuff all persons under arrest without justification?

What do you put on the use of force form if theyre compliant with no risk of fighting or escaping

There is no such thing as an arrested person who poses no risk. You even said it yourself earlier:-

Bigends said:

Policings a risk business. The only way of preventing death or injury is cease all contact with the public. He could have assaulted them at the scene or on arrival at the nick - youll never eliminate all risk - its part of the job.

The best assessment you can make is that they are an unknown risk.

Cat

[Billyray911]

The conflict resolution or management model hasn't existed for a while now.It is now the National Decision model.

[Bigends]

Billyray911 said:

The conflict resolution or management model hasn't existed for a while now.It is now the National Decision model.

Same difference - just updated and rebranded - you still have to justify the use of force

[Bigends]

Cat said:

Bigends said:

Really? that you WILL handcuff all persons under arrest without justification?

What do you put on the use of force form if theyre compliant with no risk of fighting or escaping

There is no such thing as an arrested person who poses no risk. You even said it yourself earlier:-

Bigends said:

Policings a risk business. The only way of preventing death or injury is cease all contact with the public. He could have assaulted them at the scene or on arrival at the nick - youll never eliminate all risk - its part of the job.

The best assessment you can make is that they are an unknown risk.

Cat

Of course there are detained persons who are no risk -

[Bigends]

Still need an answer t omy last..you come round to arrest me for some minor non minor non violence related infringement. Alls well until we're ready to leave and out come the cuffs - 'Just need to slip these on'
'why'
For safety
But i'm not going to do anything
Dont worry Its routine
No youre not
Yes I am


Things then kick off, I passively resist the cuffs (NOT the arrest) and you then have to use some techniques and assault me to get the cuffs on as well as calling for help..now making a real meal of a simple job

How does this work now..i'm just curious.
Am I now obliged to allow you to cuff me?

[Cat]

Bigends said:

Of course there are detained persons who are no risk -

Give me an example of someone who is no risk.

Cat

[dacouch]

Cat said:

Give me an example of someone who is no risk.

Cat

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/15/five-police-officers-may-face-action-over-arrest-of-university-student-bedfordshire-police

[Red Devil]

Hmmm. Bedfordshire Police - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/01/mo...

Why is it that the victim in so many of these incidents turns out to be from an ethnic minority?
Does the media have an agenda or is there still an unspoken deep rooted prejudice within the majority white population?

[oilspill]

Red Devil said:

Hmmm. Bedfordshire Police - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/01/mo...

Why is it that the victim in so many of these incidents turns out to be from an ethnic minority?
Does the media have an agenda or is there still an unspoken deep rooted prejudice within the majority white population?

Your link is yet another Guardian article highlighting the fact there are less ethnic Police officers as a percentage than in the community. Yet the Guardian doesn't seem to show figures of how many say Black or Asian people applied to be Police officers. Even though they claim to have 'analysed' the problem.
It's the same with other industries where the representation is considered too low. No one has the figures, yet we're asked our ethnicity on the application forms.

White people are now the minority in Luton and Leicester so they shouldn't be short of complaints and stories from the biggest community, Asian, who haven't received interviews, replies etc for their applications. Surely some kind of pattern or corruption would have appeared in those towns years ago.

The truth is, there's simply not enough interest from non whites in becoming Police officers , but the liberal media mask the facts and use it as a weapon to promote diversity in general. It's poor form bringing up the police force who've suffered continual cuts for years. Obviously not one of the areas the liberal media claimed was making us successful being in the EU.

[Bigends]

Cat said:

Bigends said:

Of course there are detained persons who are no risk -

Give me an example of someone who is no risk.

Cat

Are you saying that you are no longer able to make a judgement call over whos likely to cause you problems? Of course you should always have your wits about you in every situation. Do you fear conflict and potential assault in every day to day engagement with the public. I know thats the way training was going when I retired. My force didnt issue cuffs until Quikcuffs were introduced in the early 90's so managed for nearly 20 years without - how did that work?

[singlecoil]

Bigends said:

Cat said:

Bigends said:

Of course there are detained persons who are no risk -

Give me an example of someone who is no risk.

Cat

Are you saying that you are no longer able to make a judgement call over whos likely to cause you problems? Of course you should always have your wits about you in every situation. Do you fear conflict and potential assault in every day to day engagement with the public. I know thats the way training was going when I retired. My force didnt issue cuffs until Quikcuffs were introduced in the early 90's so managed for nearly 20 years without - how did that work?

I must say you have a remarkably monochromatic view of things. The idea that some people pose a risk and the rest do not, and that a policeman can tell the difference without being able to either see inside their heads or into the future is an odd idea indeed.

[spookly]

dacouch said:

Cat said:

Give me an example of someone who is no risk.

Cat

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/15/five-police-officers-may-face-action-over-arrest-of-university-student-bedfordshire-police

Jesus. That is just fking awful. Hadn't seen that story at the time.

Aside from the obviously excessive force used, the most concerning aspect is that the IPCC seem to think that most of the police officers involved then lied about what had happened to try and save themselves from the hole they'd dug.

If I was getting nicked, and I have been once, I would be compliant. What's the point in fighting/running/being an arse? I was cuffed, and I found it annoying as they were putting me in the back of a van anyway - I wasn't going anywhere. That was in Avon & Somerset area.

Cuffing people when they are being compliant isn't good PR. I fully support the use of cuffs/force when appropriate, but not as routine procedure.

[Bigends]

singlecoil said:

Bigends said:

Cat said:

Bigends said:

Of course there are detained persons who are no risk -

Give me an example of someone who is no risk.

Cat

Are you saying that you are no longer able to make a judgement call over whos likely to cause you problems? Of course you should always have your wits about you in every situation. Do you fear conflict and potential assault in every day to day engagement with the public. I know thats the way training was going when I retired. My force didnt issue cuffs until Quikcuffs were introduced in the early 90's so managed for nearly 20 years without - how did that work?

I must say you have a remarkably monochromatic view of things. The idea that some people pose a risk and the rest do not, and that a policeman can tell the difference without being able to either see inside their heads or into the future is an odd idea indeed.

Of course not - experience and judgement should give some idea as to whos possibly going to be a risk. Get the law changed - everybody cuffed regardless then there isn't a problem. The public meekly comply at the moment when theres often no justification of putting them thorough the humiliation of taken through a public area in handcuffs. Dont get me wrong I was glad when they were issued and was a divisional trainer on them, but am still of the view that there use must be reasonable, necessary and proportionate