Police Officer Smashes Windscreen

[Alpinestars]

XCP said:

I think people get tired of repeating themselves. The law governing the use of force has been linked to and explained many many times. At the end of the day the PC has to be able to justify his use of force. If he can, fine. If he can't, he is for the high jump.
And the only way that will be resolved is by investigating ALL the circumstances surrounding the incident in a level headed and dispassionate manner.

None of us are in a position to do that, so we will all have to wait and see. Anything else is just so much froth.

This is closer to my understanding. Not sure some of your other colleagues have put it in that same way - this is a bit more circumspect. He could only rely on using force as a result of preventing a crime. Case law only really supports that where there is imminent danger (perceived or real). A high bar from what the video shows, but you're right, maybe there's something so compelling that happened before the recording that justifies the "I was preventing a crime".

In your view, why has this gone to an investigation and the PC put on restricted duties? Does that happen anytime a member of public makes a complaint?

[Alpinestars]

Greendubber said:

Go on, try and be a bit more patronising and maybe look at that chip you seem to have on your shoulder.

Brilliant.

[Greendubber]

Alpinestars said:

Greendubber said:

Go on, try and be a bit more patronising and maybe look at that chip you seem to have on your shoulder.

Brilliant.

Thanks

[XCP]

Alpinestars said:

This is closer to my understanding. Not sure some of your other colleagues have put it in that same way - this is a bit more circumspect. He could only rely on using force as a result of preventing a crime. Case law only really supports that where there is imminent danger (perceived or real). A high bar from what the video shows, but you're right, maybe there's something so compelling that happened before the recording that justifies the "I was preventing a crime".

In your view, why has this gone to an investigation and the PC put on restricted duties? Does that happen anytime a member of public makes a complaint?

It has gone to an investigation as a complaint has been made I assume. I don't know why he has been put on restricted duties. I could guess but it would be a guess. It certainly doesn't happen for all complaints otherwise virtually everyone would be on restricted duties. All officers attract complaints. My record was 9 in an 8 hour shift.

[Greendubber]

XCP said:

Alpinestars said:

This is closer to my understanding. Not sure some of your other colleagues have put it in that same way - this is a bit more circumspect. He could only rely on using force as a result of preventing a crime. Case law only really supports that where there is imminent danger (perceived or real). A high bar from what the video shows, but you're right, maybe there's something so compelling that happened before the recording that justifies the "I was preventing a crime".

In your view, why has this gone to an investigation and the PC put on restricted duties? Does that happen anytime a member of public makes a complaint?

It has gone to an investigation as a complaint has been made I assume. I don't know why he has been put on restricted duties. I could guess but it would be a guess. It certainly doesn't happen for all complaints otherwise virtually everyone would be on restricted duties. All officers attract complaints. My record was 9 in an 8 hour shift.

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

[XCP]

Quite. He may even become a target in certain quarters.

[Alpinestars]

XCP said:

It has gone to an investigation as a complaint has been made I assume. I don't know why he has been put on restricted duties. I could guess but it would be a guess. It certainly doesn't happen for all complaints otherwise virtually everyone would be on restricted duties. All officers attract complaints. My record was 9 in an 8 hour shift.

Thanks.

I wouldn't expect all complaints to result in restricted duties and or investigation, but I wanted confirmation. Which means there's something that someone thinks is over and beyond the numerous complaints that people must make (gratuitous or otherwise) in this case.

[Alpinestars]

XCP said:

Quite. He may even become a target in certain quarters.

Which is clearly wrong, so one would assume that he should have been trained to only react that way if absolutely necessary.

[XCP]

Indeed. He's all over the internet trying to smash a windscreen. At least mine were a bit more discreet generally!

ETA reply to the post 2 above not the most recent if you see what I mean!

Edited by XCP on Wednesday 28th September 21:49

[cmaguire]

Greendubber said:

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

[Greendubber]

XCP said:

Quite. He may even become a target in certain quarters.

For sure, otherwise he'd have people shoving phones in his face and wouldnt be able to do his job.

I dont see the restriction as an indication he is in the sticky stuff though, just that he needs to be kept out of the way due to the reaction of some to the video.

[Alpinestars]

XCP said:

Indeed. He's all over the internet trying to smash a windscreen. At least mine were a bit more discreet generally!

Which I think puts pressure on the investigation and might make it untenable for him to continue his job. Can you imagine the harassment he might get on the streets.

[Alpinestars]

cmaguire said:

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

Yep.

[Greendubber]

cmaguire said:

Greendubber said:

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

If there is an allegation of excessive force its entirely appropriate that restricted duties may follow. Dont forget we dont know everything about what happened which works both ways as there could be another officer thats said he was going ape sh!t for no reason and he's up to his neck in it.

[XCP]

Alpinestars said:

XCP said:

Quite. He may even become a target in certain quarters.

Which is clearly wrong, so one would assume that he should have been trained to only react that way if absolutely necessary.

He will have been trained that any use of force has to be proportionate and justifiable having regard to all the circumstances. It is up to him to justify what he did. He will know that.

[cmaguire]

If the video did not exist and there was only a formal complaint by the 'victim', would we have a situation where the PCs superiors would take him aside, tell him they were looking into it and he'd better keep his nose clean while they did, but otherwise he would carry on as before until such time as they reached their conclusions.
Seems plausible to me, although maybe I'm 25 years out of date.
In which case it's political correctness and the fear of negative publicity that has him on restricted duties.

[roofer]

Greendubber said:

cmaguire said:

Greendubber said:

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

If there is an allegation of excessive force its entirely appropriate that restricted duties may follow. Dont forget we dont know everything about what happened which works both ways as there could be another officer thats said he was going ape sh!t for no reason and he's up to his neck in it.

Nothing like a bit of camaderie in the force,,bubble your mate, get a promotion. Makes you like the grasses you thrived on, no ?

[Greendubber]

roofer said:

Greendubber said:

cmaguire said:

Greendubber said:

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

If there is an allegation of excessive force its entirely appropriate that restricted duties may follow. Dont forget we dont know everything about what happened which works both ways as there could be another officer thats said he was going ape sh!t for no reason and he's up to his neck in it.

Nothing like a bit of camaderie in the force,,bubble your mate, get a promotion. Makes you like the grasses you thrived on, no ?

What planet are you on?

[roofer]

Greendubber said:

roofer said:

Greendubber said:

cmaguire said:

Greendubber said:

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

If there is an allegation of excessive force its entirely appropriate that restricted duties may follow. Dont forget we dont know everything about what happened which works both ways as there could be another officer thats said he was going ape sh!t for no reason and he's up to his neck in it.

Nothing like a bit of camaderie in the force,,bubble your mate, get a promotion. Makes you like the grasses you thrived on, no ?

What planet are you on?

Earth, not kiss the bosses arse get a promotion. A grass is a grass, whatever side of the law he is on. I bet your colleagues are right pleased they have you as support.

[Greendubber]

roofer said:

Greendubber said:

roofer said:

Greendubber said:

cmaguire said:

Greendubber said:

Public interest plays large part in things now, he's all over the media so I think its only right he's restricted. Pre camera phones Joe Public wouldnt know who he was as he wouldnt be all over the press etc.

Even now chances are only the sad bds that frequent social media would know who he is anyway. Restricted duties goes against a presumption of innocence in many ways. Appropriate if accused of sexual harassment for example, but this ?

If there is an allegation of excessive force its entirely appropriate that restricted duties may follow. Dont forget we dont know everything about what happened which works both ways as there could be another officer thats said he was going ape sh!t for no reason and he's up to his neck in it.

Nothing like a bit of camaderie in the force,,bubble your mate, get a promotion. Makes you like the grasses you thrived on, no ?

What planet are you on?

Earth, not kiss the bosses arse get a promotion. A grass is a grass, whatever side of the law he is on. I bet your colleagues are right pleased they have you as support.

You want dishonest police officers?

Says more about you than it does me.