Wedding supplier issue
Discussion
I have an upcoming wedding booked for next year and have a venue dressing company booked to do chair covers, uplighters, venue dressing etc.
Due to work commitments and a move to Australia coming up we have had to change the date of the wedding and the venue dressers have confirmed this date is acceptable to them. We have also had to change the venue which, again, the venue dressers have said would be fine. However, upon us choosing the new venue the venue dressers have said they will not work at that venue due to issues they have had in the past with the venue losing some of their items.
We now have to find another company to provide chair covers and venue dressing. We have asked the original company for a refund of the deposit we have paid them but they are now refusing even though it is them that have said they will not do they venue.
Further to this we have never actually had any terms and conditions from the company or signed anything. The only thing we have done is accepted their quote via their website and paid the deposit directly to them in cash.
Are we within our rights to ask for the deposit back? Are they within their rights to withhold the deposit if they are refusing to cover the new venue and if they have never sent us any terms and conditions and no terms and conditions are present on their website?
Due to work commitments and a move to Australia coming up we have had to change the date of the wedding and the venue dressers have confirmed this date is acceptable to them. We have also had to change the venue which, again, the venue dressers have said would be fine. However, upon us choosing the new venue the venue dressers have said they will not work at that venue due to issues they have had in the past with the venue losing some of their items.
We now have to find another company to provide chair covers and venue dressing. We have asked the original company for a refund of the deposit we have paid them but they are now refusing even though it is them that have said they will not do they venue.
Further to this we have never actually had any terms and conditions from the company or signed anything. The only thing we have done is accepted their quote via their website and paid the deposit directly to them in cash.
Are we within our rights to ask for the deposit back? Are they within their rights to withhold the deposit if they are refusing to cover the new venue and if they have never sent us any terms and conditions and no terms and conditions are present on their website?
IANAL but this sounds like a complete nightmare in every way
How much deposit did you pay?
If its a small amount Id be tempted to let it lie and focus on all of the other stress you have
It could be worse
The week before our wedding we sacked our incompetent caterer who at least had the decency to refund us our deposit
Good luck
simoncrowe said:
We have asked the original company for a refund of the deposit we have paid them but they are now refusing even though it is them that have said they will not do they venue.
They accepted your order on the basis the work was at one venue on one date.You are now changing the date - which they're happy with - and the venue - which they are not happy with, due to previous problems while working there. If you'd originally tried to book them for that venue, they'd have refused.
Your change is the root cause of the problem here...
(I presume it's too late to take the hint regarding the new venue?)
ging84 said:
In the absence of any terms and conditions deposits are generally accepted to be non refundable.
However companies are only entitled to retain deposits which represent a real loss to the business.
Yes, but if they cannot now find another booking for that date they will have lost the potential work for that day... which is why most service companies require deposits as they are unlikely to fill in the slots closer to the time and can't have everyone just cancelling/changing as they couldn't run their business.However companies are only entitled to retain deposits which represent a real loss to the business.
OP - it's a sign.... run for the hills :-P
JonV8V said:
TooMany2cvs said:
(I presume it's too late to take the hint regarding the new venue?)
It really doesn't help the OP but I agree, if people turn down trade because of where it is, it's not a vote of confidence. Let's hope the deposit is the only issue.Not sure where Jon is coming from?
JonV8V said:
TooMany2cvs said:
(I presume it's too late to take the hint regarding the new venue?)
It really doesn't help the OP but I agree, if people turn down trade because of where it is, it's not a vote of confidence. Let's hope the deposit is the only issue.Riley Blue said:
JonV8V said:
TooMany2cvs said:
(I presume it's too late to take the hint regarding the new venue?)
It really doesn't help the OP but I agree, if people turn down trade because of where it is, it's not a vote of confidence. Let's hope the deposit is the only issue.Hell yes.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
'... venue dressing...'
FFS!!!!! Come on man! You're making a rod for your own back with that s
t!
Please see:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
FFS!!!!! Come on man! You're making a rod for your own back with that s
t!Please see:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
JustinP1 said:
Hell yes.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
While you're technically correct, loads of wedding stuff is run by small one person bands offering great personal attention when it goes well, they also get burnt by customers and venues. A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
JustinP1 said:
Hell yes.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
We met them at the original venue and handed over a cash deposit. They sent us a receipt later by email.A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
The deposit was not small by any means at £380. They have said they will not deal with this venue as they have lost some of their chair covers in the past. I have no issues with the venue at all and will be continuing with it.
On the day we originally met the venue dressers they were late as they have been to another venue to collect their items and some had gone missing. Is this something that happens a lot or is it something this supplier does a lot?
This supplier have told us they do 1200 weddings a year which I find hard to believe as they are a husband and wife team and run it from a room at their home. This would mean they are doing 3-4 weddings per day every single day of the year.
I have read somewhere about some case law regarding non refundable deposits and their legality. The supplier has to prove they have been inconvenienced and suffered loss in order to retain the deposit. I can understand if we had changed venues with a couple of weeks notice but the wedding is nearly 12 months away I find it hard to believe they have suffered any loss and they would find it hard to prove in court. Would I have a case if I started a money claim online?
JustinP1 said:
Hell yes.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
How does one 'shoot' a company?
More importantly, what sort of venue can't 'dress' itself?
Are we sure this isn't a wind up?
REALIST123 said:
JustinP1 said:
Hell yes.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
How does one 'shoot' a company?
More importantly, what sort of venue can't 'dress' itself?
Are we sure this isn't a wind up?
2) None of them do. Third party companies provide the chair backs, decorations and the rest of the crap that brides expect from photos in OK magasine.
3) My spidey sense says no.
simoncrowe said:
JustinP1 said:
Hell yes.
A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
We met them at the original venue and handed over a cash deposit. They sent us a receipt later by email.A company who takes a deposit without providing written terms is procedurally slack.
A company who turns down work because of minor issues is mad.
A company who in this day and age is not aware, nor makes provision for consumer legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 really needs shooting.
OP, where did you enter into this agreement? If it's not on their premises, and they did not give you anything in writing regarding key information and cancelling, you may have an angle here.
The deposit was not small by any means at £380. They have said they will not deal with this venue as they have lost some of their chair covers in the past. I have no issues with the venue at all and will be continuing with it.
On the day we originally met the venue dressers they were late as they have been to another venue to collect their items and some had gone missing. Is this something that happens a lot or is it something this supplier does a lot?
This supplier have told us they do 1200 weddings a year which I find hard to believe as they are a husband and wife team and run it from a room at their home. This would mean they are doing 3-4 weddings per day every single day of the year.
I have read somewhere about some case law regarding non refundable deposits and their legality. The supplier has to prove they have been inconvenienced and suffered loss in order to retain the deposit. I can understand if we had changed venues with a couple of weeks notice but the wedding is nearly 12 months away I find it hard to believe they have suffered any loss and they would find it hard to prove in court. Would I have a case if I started a money claim online?
...without providing any kind of written terms of business beforehand?
I don't believe them. If they ran an operation that size, they'd have encountered consumer law before, or spent the time to actually adhere with it.
You are correct about the refundable deposit issue but that's something they could defend. In this case The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 is your friend.
They should have provided you with written terms about the service they offer, as well as a whole list of stuff, including cancellation terms. It looks like from the information you've provided that you have the right to cancel, now, and get your money back as they've fundamentally failed to adhere with the law. Have a read up and you'll see.
Where you go from here is up to you, you could call them letting them know, write to them, or have a chat with your local Trading Standards office who may be able to help confirm what you can legally expect.
OP I would read this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wedding-venues-...
and then this
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
which explains this to businesses about customer cancellations:
"when you are not at fault, you only seek to recover losses that you have reasonably incurred"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wedding-venues-...
and then this
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
which explains this to businesses about customer cancellations:
"when you are not at fault, you only seek to recover losses that you have reasonably incurred"
JustinP1 said:
If they are doing 1200 weddings a year, and taking £380 deposits each time, they are taking £462,000 of (presumably cash) deposits a year...
...without providing any kind of written terms of business beforehand?
I don't believe them. If they ran an operation that size, they'd have encountered consumer law before, or spent the time to actually adhere with it.
You are correct about the refundable deposit issue but that's something they could defend. In this case The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 is your friend.
They should have provided you with written terms about the service they offer, as well as a whole list of stuff, including cancellation terms. It looks like from the information you've provided that you have the right to cancel, now, and get your money back as they've fundamentally failed to adhere with the law. Have a read up and you'll see.
Where you go from here is up to you, you could call them letting them know, write to them, or have a chat with your local Trading Standards office who may be able to help confirm what you can legally expect.
Yep - ignore my earlier post when I have them the benefit of the doubt ...without providing any kind of written terms of business beforehand?
I don't believe them. If they ran an operation that size, they'd have encountered consumer law before, or spent the time to actually adhere with it.
You are correct about the refundable deposit issue but that's something they could defend. In this case The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 is your friend.
They should have provided you with written terms about the service they offer, as well as a whole list of stuff, including cancellation terms. It looks like from the information you've provided that you have the right to cancel, now, and get your money back as they've fundamentally failed to adhere with the law. Have a read up and you'll see.
Where you go from here is up to you, you could call them letting them know, write to them, or have a chat with your local Trading Standards office who may be able to help confirm what you can legally expect.
simoncrowe said:
We met them at the original venue and handed over a cash deposit. They sent us a receipt later by email.
The deposit was not small by any means at £380. They have said they will not deal with this venue as they have lost some of their chair covers in the past. I have no issues with the venue at all and will be continuing with it.
On the day we originally met the venue dressers they were late as they have been to another venue to collect their items and some had gone missing. Is this something that happens a lot or is it something this supplier does a lot?
This supplier have told us they do 1200 weddings a year which I find hard to believe as they are a husband and wife team and run it from a room at their home. This would mean they are doing 3-4 weddings per day every single day of the year.
I have read somewhere about some case law regarding non refundable deposits and their legality. The supplier has to prove they have been inconvenienced and suffered loss in order to retain the deposit. I can understand if we had changed venues with a couple of weeks notice but the wedding is nearly 12 months away I find it hard to believe they have suffered any loss and they would find it hard to prove in court. Would I have a case if I started a money claim online?
While I suspect they will end up having to refund you this is a problem of your making not theirs.The deposit was not small by any means at £380. They have said they will not deal with this venue as they have lost some of their chair covers in the past. I have no issues with the venue at all and will be continuing with it.
On the day we originally met the venue dressers they were late as they have been to another venue to collect their items and some had gone missing. Is this something that happens a lot or is it something this supplier does a lot?
This supplier have told us they do 1200 weddings a year which I find hard to believe as they are a husband and wife team and run it from a room at their home. This would mean they are doing 3-4 weddings per day every single day of the year.
I have read somewhere about some case law regarding non refundable deposits and their legality. The supplier has to prove they have been inconvenienced and suffered loss in order to retain the deposit. I can understand if we had changed venues with a couple of weeks notice but the wedding is nearly 12 months away I find it hard to believe they have suffered any loss and they would find it hard to prove in court. Would I have a case if I started a money claim online?
From my perspective you are not entitled to a refund or at least not in full that's for sure. Reality is that although the date is 12 months away work will have been done by them for your booking and as the saying goes time is money.
Without wishing to sound harsh do you think all the time they have spent in correspondence with you was because they had a bit of free time and rather than relax and read a book they decided to talk to you?
When a customer request I do work for them they do not see the amount of work that goes into what they have requested before we even arrive on site. Spending time with them on the phone or answering their emails, prepping documents or resources etc all these things take time which is covered at the end of the project when we bill them for the work done.
Try see this from their perspective rather than just your own. You changed he rules not them. They were happy to work with you and change date and venue even though this probably created more work for them and you would not have been charged any extra for it at the end.
They have decided they will not work at a venue as they have experience with the venue and believe it will cost them money to do so.
Consider this. Offer to cover any losses they may incur due to the venue you have chosen as that is what you are asking them to do.
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