Bernard Hogan-Howe to retire as Met Police Commissioner
Discussion
Apart from the obvious I really know nothing of her or her past. Good luck to her, she's obviously ticked a lot of the boxes to get the job, I doubt one single candidate could tick them all, from that she must have been the best candidate on overall merit. Time and actions will be best judge.
I don't think he was an illegal immigrant was he? Not that it makes any difference.
Read Stockwell 1 if you want to learn about the matter.
Rovinghawk said:
The information she had was that he had come out a specific block of flats but there was no identification of who he was. That's not a great basis on which to decide to kill someone.
Why do you write things you've been corrected on before? There were plenty of pieces of ID information that justified, even obligated her, to act. Read Stockwell 1 if you want to learn about the matter.
La Liga said:
I don't think he was an illegal immigrant was he? Not that it makes any difference.
Read Stockwell 1 if you want to learn about the matter.
She's still responsible for having an innocent man killed. Rovinghawk said:
The information she had was that he had come out a specific block of flats but there was no identification of who he was. That's not a great basis on which to decide to kill someone.
Why do you write things you've been corrected on before? There were plenty of pieces of ID information that justified, even obligated her, to act. Read Stockwell 1 if you want to learn about the matter.
Derek Smith said:
La Liga said:
Read Stockwell 1 if you want to learn about the matter.
davidball said:
It would seem that being in charge of the debacle that led to the public execution of an innocent man is a good qualification for a Met Commissioner. Her appointment is a shockingly bad and insensitive decision and a new low for the Met.
You know it's a good choice when you don't like it given your comical lack of knowledge around the relevant subject matters. REALIST123 said:
She's still responsible for having an innocent man killed.
She's responsible for managing an operation and making decisions based upon the information she receives, inline with her training, policies and procedure. Within a high-risk, dynamic environment there is scope for the wrong outcome even with the right process (as far as she is concerned).
Whether people want to think about it like that or accept it doesn't change the realities.
FFS, it's like waking up in the 1950 being on here sometimes.Rovinghawk said:
Did did she authorise it or did her troops do it with carte blanche or without authorisation?
She was in charge, she was where the buck stops.
You'd know the answer to your first question if you'd read the results of the enquiries.She was in charge, she was where the buck stops.
What on earth does that mean; where the buck stops? Without qualification it’s a nonsensical phrase. Very macho, butch in fact, but empty.
For instance, in this case do you mean that Dick should somehow be punished for doing her job as she was obliged to? Does it mean that if she makes a mistake due to partial information and complies with the obligation to act, she must take the blame? Do you mean that regardless of any limitations placed on her by courts, government policy, Home Office requirement, or other person with authority over her, she has to fall on her sword?
Does it mean that despite being exonerated by one of the most thorough enquiries of recent memory, the finding must be ignored and she should be blamed? OK, fair enough, but what about the next gold who, with the treatment of the previous person in that position, was blamed, decides not to follow procedure? Do we praise that person for not doing what they were obliged to do?
What the police needs like a hole in the head is fear of making a decision.
Dick was exonerated. It takes a certain maturity and common sense to accept that things won’t always turn out nice. Let us know when you’ve reached that stage.
XCP said:
I think you are wasting your time Derek.
Yeah, I know, but I can't help feeling that if such prejudiced posts are not challenged, and forcefully, one is accepting them. I'm not after convincing him/her, any more than Canute was trying to hold back the tide. However, it might show others that the statements he/she makes are nonsensical. One of the telling points is that he/she ignores those points which prove his/her statements wrong. That is always a sign.It is like the fallacy of the allegation that the police always cover for their colleagues which are normally made on thread where follow police officers are the originators and prosecution witnesses. The irony implicit in the comments must be highlighted.
The Mad Monk said:
Menezes was an illegal immigrant. If he had left the UK when he should have done, he would, presumably, still be alive today.
That's not true. He wasn't in the country illegally on the day he was killed.wikipedia said:
Immigration records show that Menezes entered the Republic of Ireland from France on 23 April 2005. There are no records to show the exact date that he returned to the UK; however, under the Common Travel Area system, a foreign citizen entering the UK through the Republic of Ireland has an automatic right to remain for three months. Therefore, Menezes was lawfully in the UK on the day he was killed, even though the stamp in his passport recording indefinite leave to remain was a forgery.[4]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezeshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7048756.stm
BBC link said:
In 2014, she left Scotland Yard to take up a highly sensitive and undisclosed director-general post at the Foreign Office.
I will bet those last two years spent in Whitehall has a lot to do with it. Politics plays a far greater role in the job of Commissioner than that of any Chief Constable. Time served inside the hen house will have been the edge over the other candidates. Her apppintment will turn out to be the best of days or the worst of days. Only time will tell. There is no middle ground with this one.konark said:
Retiring on £181,500 a year pension, and he's only 58.
That would equate with a £9million pension pot.
(UK average is about £90,000.)
A far-from-stellar tenure, probably jumping before he gets pushed.
Say what you want about this country, we reward mediocrity well.
As For Cressida Dick, she has left the Met and was too closely implicated in both the Duggan and de Menezes killings to be credible.
2/3 final salary, where the salary is set as part of a Byzantine senior management structure comprising:That would equate with a £9million pension pot.
(UK average is about £90,000.)
A far-from-stellar tenure, probably jumping before he gets pushed.
Say what you want about this country, we reward mediocrity well.
As For Cressida Dick, she has left the Met and was too closely implicated in both the Duggan and de Menezes killings to be credible.
Edited by konark on Friday 10th February 18:15
Commissioner
Deputy Commissioner
Assistant Commissioners
Deputy Assistant Commissioners
Commanders
Chief Superintendents
Superintendents
http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/who_we_are_and_w...
The potential for endless meetings must be immense.
Derek Smith said:
What on earth does that mean; where the buck stops?
She was in charge of a botched operation. Even you can't misrepresent it as any kind of success.Where I come from the person in charge of the cock-up takes responsibility and consequences for what happens. This doesn't appear to have happened here.
Very tragic an innocent man died as a result of very poor Policing. I feel that ALL officers in the case were at fault in some way.
What the Met Pol have to do is learn from these mistakes and make sure they don't happen again, sadly they will because we are humans and humans make mistakes
I myself believe she is the wrong choice for being the top policer Officer in the country, time will tell.
Getting back to the officer who shot the poor guy, he has to live with the fact he got it badly wrong. If he is still serving I hope he is not carrying a firearm.
We can only count our blessings that we don't live just about everywhere else in the world, where on the whole the Police will shoot first then ask questions later. We are fourtunate that the majority of our Police are armed with little more than a baton, and pepper type spray. God forbid they have to be armed as a mater of routine. I know many current Police officers would refuse to carry firearms. We are lucky these incidents are very rare.
If a police officer is armed, and "suggests" you carry out a command he is asking you, then on the whole it is better to comply......especially if he is pointing an MP5 or a 9mm pistol at you
We have the Police service we deserve, we are bloody lucky we have probably the least corrupt, and most accountable service in the world. There is not enough of them, they are cut to the bone, and they are carrying out the duties just about all other "service providers" fail to provide on a 24/7 basis.
i suppose we could all move to the USA if we are unhappy with politics and policing here, at least on this forum we can attack them without fear.....can't say that almost everywhere else........
They should make me Met pol Comm.....I would love the pension !
What the Met Pol have to do is learn from these mistakes and make sure they don't happen again, sadly they will because we are humans and humans make mistakes
I myself believe she is the wrong choice for being the top policer Officer in the country, time will tell.
Getting back to the officer who shot the poor guy, he has to live with the fact he got it badly wrong. If he is still serving I hope he is not carrying a firearm.
We can only count our blessings that we don't live just about everywhere else in the world, where on the whole the Police will shoot first then ask questions later. We are fourtunate that the majority of our Police are armed with little more than a baton, and pepper type spray. God forbid they have to be armed as a mater of routine. I know many current Police officers would refuse to carry firearms. We are lucky these incidents are very rare.
If a police officer is armed, and "suggests" you carry out a command he is asking you, then on the whole it is better to comply......especially if he is pointing an MP5 or a 9mm pistol at you
We have the Police service we deserve, we are bloody lucky we have probably the least corrupt, and most accountable service in the world. There is not enough of them, they are cut to the bone, and they are carrying out the duties just about all other "service providers" fail to provide on a 24/7 basis.
i suppose we could all move to the USA if we are unhappy with politics and policing here, at least on this forum we can attack them without fear.....can't say that almost everywhere else........
They should make me Met pol Comm.....I would love the pension !
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