Bernard Hogan-Howe to retire as Met Police Commissioner

[Derek Smith]

Rovinghawk said:

She was in charge of a botched operation. Even you can't misrepresent it as any kind of success.

Where I come from the person in charge of the cock-up takes responsibility and consequences for what happens. This doesn't appear to have happened here.

So what about the person whose instructions she was following? What about the person in charge of her? Even you be a simplistic as to suggest that a line can be drawn at one level.

But the pathetically stupid idea is that anyone can come to the right conclusion on limited information 100% of the time. A developing situation requires people brave enough to make decisions. Not something required when sitting at a keyboard.

It is impossible to be right all the time in such situations. No one could possibly be.

Saying the buck stops at her is very macho but a nonsensical statement without qualification. What on earth does buck mean? She was absolved of responsibility by people who, unlike you, had access to the full information about her role. But you know better.

Forgive me but you don't. You should be grateful that there are those who put themselves into such impossible situations.

[davidball]

These sorry excuses from the usual sources are predictable and boring.

[Rovinghawk]

Derek Smith said:

She was absolved of responsibility by people who, unlike you, had access to the full information about her role.

Nobody did anything wrong, the guy just got shot for all the right reasons.

Derek Smith said:

You should be grateful that there are those who put themselves into such impossible situations.

I should be grateful that innocent people are shot because someone gets it wrong?

She was in charge. Somebody presumably decided the guy should die- if not her then who? Please don't attempt to tell me that nobody authorised the killing & it 'just happened'; that's the excuse little kids give when they break something.

Edited by Rovinghawk on Friday 3rd March 21:04

[vonhosen]

Rovinghawk said:

Derek Smith said:

She was absolved of responsibility by people who, unlike you, had access to the full information about her role.

Nobody did anything wrong, the guy just got shot for all the right reasons.

Derek Smith said:

You should be grateful that there are those who put themselves into such impossible situations.

I should be grateful that innocent people are shot because someone gets it wrong?

She was in charge. Somebody presumably decided the guy should die- if not her then who? Please don't attempt to tell me that nobody authorised the killing & it 'just happened'; that's the excuse little kids give when they break something.

The person who shot him did so knowing he could die.
That person was found to be acting upon an honestly held belief that there was an immediate threat to their & other's lives.
It was also found that such a use of lethal force was proportionate to the perceived threat (if the perceived threat is mistakenly held it doesn't alter that).

[CoolHands]

But more importantly, is Amber Rudd a giant?

[HarryW]

CoolHands said:

But more importantly, is Amber Rudd a giant?

Never realised Khan was so diddy, that explains a lot now that I've seen it...SMS

[Rovinghawk]

vonhosen said:

That person was found to be acting upon an honestly held belief that there was an immediate threat to their & other's lives.
It was also found that such a use of lethal force was proportionate to the perceived threat (if the perceived threat is mistakenly held it doesn't alter that).

It still doesn't alter the fact the Cressida Dick presided over a fiasco where an innocent man was killed- apparently without anyone (including her)authorising the killing. She has then been promoted to show that cock-ups like that aren't an obstacle to career progression.

[craigjm]

CoolHands said:

But more importantly, is Amber Rudd a giant?

Cressida Dick is only 5ft

[XCP]

Rovinghawk said:

It still doesn't alter the fact the Cressida Dick presided over a fiasco where an innocent man was killed- apparently without anyone (including her)authorising the killing. She has then been promoted to show that cock-ups like that aren't an obstacle to career progression.

I think the important thing to consider is whether she is the best candidate for the job of Commissioner. Clearly she is highly thought of and was considered to be so despite her 'history'. That in itself suggests she must have been a lot better than the other candidates who didn't have such a high profile history.

[Derek Smith]

Rovinghawk said:

Derek Smith said:

She was absolved of responsibility by people who, unlike you, had access to the full information about her role.

Nobody did anything wrong, the guy just got shot for all the right reasons.

Derek Smith said:

You should be grateful that there are those who put themselves into such impossible situations.

I should be grateful that innocent people are shot because someone gets it wrong?

She was in charge. Somebody presumably decided the guy should die- if not her then who? Please don't attempt to tell me that nobody authorised the killing & it 'just happened'; that's the excuse little kids give when they break something.

Edited by Rovinghawk on Friday 3rd March 21:04

Again and again you twist what I said. I did not say, suggest or intimate that we should be grateful innocent people get shot. A rather stupid thing to post. Read what you quoted of my post again, and again and see if something sinks in.

You somehow, without knowing the full details of the incident, can apportion blame. The enquiry, despite having access to many, many more details than you, and me and all of us on here, came to a different conclusion. Mind if I go with them and not with someone whose prejudices are made plain on this forum again and again.

It takes maturity to accept that sometimes things don't run out as they do in the fairy stories that these little kids you mention like to believe in. It is unfortunate, but life's not like that.

[mybrainhurts]

One thing's gone unnoticed in all this hoo haa. .

All credit to Private Eye for predicting the appointment of Dick back in the 60s, when they created Inspector Knacker of the Yard.

[Rovinghawk]

XCP said:

I think the important thing to consider is whether she is the best candidate for the job of Commissioner. Clearly she is highly thought of and was considered to be so despite her 'history'. That in itself suggests she must have been a lot better than the other candidates who didn't have such a high profile history.

For comparison I give you the US presidential election: In a population of 360ish million I find it hard to believe that Trump & Hillary Clinton were the two best people for the job.

[anonymous-user]

Rovinghawk said:

XCP said:

I think the important thing to consider is whether she is the best candidate for the job of Commissioner. Clearly she is highly thought of and was considered to be so despite her 'history'. That in itself suggests she must have been a lot better than the other candidates who didn't have such a high profile history.

For comparison I give you the US presidential election: In a population of 360ish million I find it hard to believe that Trump & Hillary Clinton were the two best people for the job.

Ahhh yes, but they're not foolish enough to let the public choose the Met's Commissioner.

[Derek Smith]

XCP said:

I think the important thing to consider is whether she is the best candidate for the job of Commissioner. Clearly she is highly thought of and was considered to be so despite her 'history'. That in itself suggests she must have been a lot better than the other candidates who didn't have such a high profile history.

I've got the feeling there will be a political aspect to the decision. There was on better candidate at least than Hogan-Howe to my mind.

However, if you don't put yourself into a position where your will have to make critical decisions on incomplete information, you won't ever be in charge of an incident that didn't turn out as expected.