Yellow Box Junction Cameras
Discussion
Ken Figenus said:
Case Reference: 2120496332
Similar circumstances to the Essoo case I linked to. The interesting thing about his original appeal, which was later than Singer, was that it failed and was only overturned because he persisted in challenging it. I wonder whether Essoo was aware of the Singer result. If not and it wasn't brought to the adjudicator's attention it might explain why he lost first time round. It is equally possible that the adjudicator in Essoo didn't know about Singer either.A further issue is that previous judgments are not binding on other adjudicators, only persuasive. So perverse results are therefore still possible if two adjudicators have differing opinions on the same facts. This is especially troubling where the outcome turns on a point of law. If the appellant doesn't come to the fight with a full set of arrows he/she is at a disadvantage.
bad company said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
C70R said:
Which car needs 30ft of space?
One with a trailer such as a boat or caravan.
C70R said:
bad company said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
C70R said:
Which car needs 30ft of space?
One with a trailer such as a boat or caravan.rampageturke said:
box junctions are the problem here, not towing a boat through an urban area
Exactly - lets swop that cart and horse and stop blaming the motorist for unsuitable and financially punitive road design. What they design has to work for all or it is not fit for purpose - as it clearly is in a few extreme cases. Just a quick Google reveals the injustice.Almost as annoying are those people who don't understand you can wait in a box junction if your exit is clear.
There's a box junction on Edgware Road that I used to take regularly, making a right turn.
The lights don't have a right turn filter so if you wait before the box junction, by the time all the slow coaches, amber gamblers and red light runners have gone through then only one (at most) car can make the right turn.
If, however, you pull into the box junction then 2 or 3 cars can make the turn.
There's a box junction on Edgware Road that I used to take regularly, making a right turn.
The lights don't have a right turn filter so if you wait before the box junction, by the time all the slow coaches, amber gamblers and red light runners have gone through then only one (at most) car can make the right turn.
If, however, you pull into the box junction then 2 or 3 cars can make the turn.
s!Ken Figenus said:
An appeal.
As a matter of interest who is Springer? Is that a typo for Singer?This bit
appeal said:
5) The contravention however is set out in paragraph 7(1) to schedule 19 to The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002, which states, "... no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."
on first reading looks good. If you're in a flow of traffic then you cannot be penalised for stopping in a yellow box. However, thinking about it, you then wouldn't have to stop unless there was a stationary vehicle in front of you. Why the plural? In the Aberdeen example you're stopping behind a single stationary vehicle, so is that OK?The second car pulled across and then became stationary, and Singer had to stop because of that stationary vehicle.
appeal said:
That means that he had to stop not because of stationary traffic but because of a moving car taking what ... was his space
But it was stationary when he stopped, else he wouldn't have had to stop. C70R said:
I'd be keen to hear/see some examples of these "impossible" Yellow Boxes. I can't think of a single time in 20 years of driving where I've found it "impossible" to traverse a box junction.
If you're patient and assertive, a gap will eventually present itself.
Loads of them already posted above your post eg box junction on a T junction so cars come on to the main road whilst you're waiting for a gap to appear on the other side. If you waited until clear, as another poster says, a few hours will have passed and the rush hour will be over. By then of course you'd have been killed by all the drivers in the queue behind you.If you're patient and assertive, a gap will eventually present itself.
TX.
Terminator X said:
Loads of them already posted above your post eg box junction on a T junction so cars come on to the main road whilst you're waiting for a gap to appear on the other side. If you waited until clear, as another poster says, a few hours will have passed and the rush hour will be over. By then of course you'd have been killed by all the drivers in the queue behind you.
As demonstrated by the lady trying to get across the junction in Enfield on 'Inside Out' this week.rampageturke said:
C70R said:
By avoiding heavily-congested, urban areas at peak times. As anyone with any common sense would do...
box junctions are the problem here, not towing a boat through an urban areaPatience and assertive driving are all that is required - this is coming from someone who lives and drives in a city full of these things.
Surely if they are such a menace, there should be hundreds of easily-sourced examples where they place the driver in an "impossible" position.
Maybe you don't quite understand why the adjudicator rejected the penalties - but the detail is in their independent explanation referenced here. No one objects to fairly implemented rules (and most box junctions and penalties for mis use are fine) but when the implementation of the rules becomes the real transgression it rightly bothers some. I get that you are OK of course and see nothing wrong in being wronged.
Ken Figenus said:
Maybe you don't quite understand why the adjudicator rejected the penalties - but the detail is in their independent explanation referenced here. No one objects to fairly implemented rules (and most box junctions and penalties for mis use are fine) but when the implementation of the rules becomes the real transgression it rightly bothers some. I get that you are OK of course and see nothing wrong in being wronged.
I understand case law perfectly well, thanks.What I don't understand is why everyone is behaving like this is some kind of epidemic, when only a handful of cases (out of the tens of thousands of yellow boxes) have been cited.
Bad road design is a thing, you know. People occasionally get things wrong, and absolutely nobody is perfect. If you're so angry about a specific execution, write to your local MP.
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