another parking charge notice query.
Discussion
speedyguy said:
stevebroad said:
Got a notice from a company running a McDonalds car park in January 2015.
How do you spend more than 90 mins in McDonald's on someone else's private land ? (if that's what you did)I've dealt with dozens of those tickets. Met Parking know they are on a sticky wicket though, as McDonalds Corporate have supposedly instructed that no legal action is instigated on tickets issued at their sites though.
There is also the question of ANPR reliability, and problem known as "double dipping" - two separate visits are recorded as one, and a ticket is issued. Fortunately a lot of the vehicles I manage have trackers which provides independent evidence that the vehicle was elsewhere between the two times. The PPC still claim that their systems are infallible, but "as a gesture of goodwill" they tend to cancel the charges...
Again, I usually have a couple of incidents per month like this.
Does anyone still honestly believe that the PPCs are a sound and ethical business practice, that actually provides a useful service?
Edited by S11Steve on Tuesday 18th October 11:30
S11Steve said:
speedyguy said:
stevebroad said:
Got a notice from a company running a McDonalds car park in January 2015.
How do you spend more than 90 mins in McDonald's on someone else's private land ? (if that's what you did)S11Steve said:
Does anyone still honestly believe that the PPCs are a sound and ethical business practice, that actually provides a useful service?
No comment as I haven't received one as I read the signs where/when I park including all the old BS ones claiming to clamp your vehicle, but I've seen more correspondence and many more people complaining about it who were taking the pish than genuine ones. speedyguy said:
How do you spend more than 90 mins in McDonald's on someone else's private land ? (if that's what you did)
Every fortnight I drive over to Kent from Essex to see my parents and meet up with my car chums. My parents were out and the friend I usually pick up wasn't going that night. So, with a coupe of hours to waste, I decided to go for a McD (I go there approx once a month). Used the drive through and parked up. Ate the meal, read a magazine and listened to the radio, simply chilling out. The car park was never anywhere near full. If I had realised that thee was a time limit I would have left and parked in the pub car park.When I checked for signage after receiving the notice, they are high up and unlit (bear in mind that my previous visit was around 6pm in January so it was dark). If you are not looking for them you won't see them, sneaky.
Update today
Got a response.
Dear Mr X
Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.
We have investigated your appeal based on the information you have submitted and confirm that this Parking
Charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at Atlantic Business Park warning drivers that should
they park their vehicle without displaying a valid permit this will result in a Parking Charge being issued to the
vehicle.
All of our signage is fully compliant with the guidelines set out within the BPA Code of Practice and we reject the
notion that it is in any way unclear or ambiguous.
Our Appeals process is now concluded, you may now pick one of the following options:
blah blah blah.
What should I do to appeal / how should I further word it?
I spoke with the security on site last time I was there and they said they only reason I was ticketed was because I was parked in a bay which was not designated to a company. (it had not been assigned to anyone).
Got a response.
Dear Mr X
Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.
We have investigated your appeal based on the information you have submitted and confirm that this Parking
Charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at Atlantic Business Park warning drivers that should
they park their vehicle without displaying a valid permit this will result in a Parking Charge being issued to the
vehicle.
All of our signage is fully compliant with the guidelines set out within the BPA Code of Practice and we reject the
notion that it is in any way unclear or ambiguous.
Our Appeals process is now concluded, you may now pick one of the following options:
blah blah blah.
- #########
What should I do to appeal / how should I further word it?
I spoke with the security on site last time I was there and they said they only reason I was ticketed was because I was parked in a bay which was not designated to a company. (it had not been assigned to anyone).
Maybe you do not want to hear this, but I've today had a court hearing against UKPC where the judge agreed that the signage was insufficient to form a contract with the driver. The sign forbids parking without a permit, therefore a claim of trespass should have been made, but only the landowner can do that, not UKPC.
If there is no contract with the driver, then there is nothing for the keeper to be liable for.
As it is county court, it does not set a precedent, but coupled with a few other similar recent decisions that were offered to the Judge, I think that UKPC may be having an urgent review of their signs very soon.
If there is no contract with the driver, then there is nothing for the keeper to be liable for.
As it is county court, it does not set a precedent, but coupled with a few other similar recent decisions that were offered to the Judge, I think that UKPC may be having an urgent review of their signs very soon.
S11Steve said:
Does anyone still honestly believe that the PPCs are a sound and ethical business practice, that actually provides a useful service?
Ethical? Possibly not.Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
Corpulent Tosser said:
Ethical? Possibly not.
Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
Attended service, pay on exit, barrier control - there are plenty of alternatives that do not involve extortion and harassment through the legal system. Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
S11Steve said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
Ethical? Possibly not.
Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
Attended service, pay on exit, barrier control - there are plenty of alternatives that do not involve extortion and harassment through the legal system. Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
kers abusing the parking.Corpulent Tosser said:
All require additional expense, just to deter/prevent selfish fkers abusing the parking.
The reality is that the people who do abuse the parking spaces are in the tiny minority, and not much will deter those. The majority of parking tickets are issued to people who have a genuine right to be there, like the OP in this case, like the residents of apartments, like the genuine shoppers. kers abusing the parking.Given how many tickets I personally get overturned at POPLA and at court, I do wonder if private parking charges were legislated out of existence, would there really be a parking nightmare?
I don't really bother with IPC/IAS appeals - I turn in a fairly standard, generic templated appeal, and wait for the automated rejection. I work on the basis that if they had the nerve to take me to court over one of these, then they'll be shown up for the sham that they are.
Maybe PHers from Scotland or Northern Ireland can confirm if car parks are chock full of freeloaders - because there is no effective law in either of those jurisdictions for enforcing private parking charges.
After the case yesterday, I'm also recognising that the courts are getting fed up with these shysters wasting their time. The judge was absolutely seething that such a flaky case had been put in front of him, and that an untrained self-representative put up a better case than the Claimant. His views were shared amongst many of his peers.
The UKPC advocate also admitted that he drew the short straw on that one, and his colleagues were all teasing him about getting lumbered with the dead donkey cases for the next month.
So if there is a genuine case for controlling private parking, then maybe the investment is required, because yesterday cost UKPC in excess of £600 in legal fees and costs. And I have three more coming up over the next 2 months.
Corpulent Tosser said:
All require additional expense, just to deter/prevent selfish fkers abusing the parking.
Was I a selfish tosser then?kers abusing the parking.I suspect 50-60% of cases are similar to mine.
Then you may have 30-40% being people who actually abuse the parking
the remainder may well be technicality cases eg ANPR not registering properly or similar.....
xjay1337 said:
Was I a selfish tosser then?
Well you paid them, indirectly... so yes, you are!! 
Truth is though, I reckon less than 5% that I see are genuinely where I think somebody has taken the piss. I'm not in direct contact with any of the drivers though, so do not know specific circumstances of every case, but the amount of repeat tickets given at residential locations for my rental vehicles is astounding.
Judging by the companies who we have supplied them to, many of these are accident replacements so the driver is highly likely to have a regular vehicles with a valid permit, and the pedantic PPCs are just milking them for revenue.
Corpulent Tosser said:
S11Steve said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
Ethical? Possibly not.
Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
Attended service, pay on exit, barrier control - there are plenty of alternatives that do not involve extortion and harassment through the legal system. Provide a useful service? In many cases probably yes.
What are the alternatives though? Go back to clamping? Parking free for all?
kers abusing the parking.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff