Carbon frame repair
Discussion
My best bike got broken in a car accident. A large crack in the carbon fibre down tube.
I've been googling about and trying to find opinions on repaired carbon frames and I didn't see what I expected. I thought it would be a bit like with the generic Chinese frames, folk would be saying they'd never ride a repaired frame, but I'm not seeing much of that at all.
Would you ride a repaired frame? or get rid and buy a shiny new bike?
I've been googling about and trying to find opinions on repaired carbon frames and I didn't see what I expected. I thought it would be a bit like with the generic Chinese frames, folk would be saying they'd never ride a repaired frame, but I'm not seeing much of that at all.
Would you ride a repaired frame? or get rid and buy a shiny new bike?
Try Rob Hayles (yes that Rob Hayles) at re-carb. He's a structural engineer and ex world champion, I'd trust his opinion over the internet and he's repaired frames and wheels for a good number of pro teams and National teams. Most carbon frames can be repaired, you'd never notice once it's painted but it does depend on things like tube profile, size of crack and how much your prepared to pay.
If Rob says it's f
ked then it's fked but I'd say that's in a relatively easy spot and repairable, at a guess it's about £200, how far round does the crack go?
I'd ride a repaired frame of I knew and trusted the person doing it, some frames really shouldn't be repaired but people will do it. Rob said my Giant was a write off but another person was content it could be fixed and was after £400 to do it. Surely you can get a new frame off the insurance though?
If Rob says it's f
ked then it's fked but I'd say that's in a relatively easy spot and repairable, at a guess it's about £200, how far round does the crack go? I'd ride a repaired frame of I knew and trusted the person doing it, some frames really shouldn't be repaired but people will do it. Rob said my Giant was a write off but another person was content it could be fixed and was after £400 to do it. Surely you can get a new frame off the insurance though?
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 17th October 20:16
Money isn't an issue really. Insurance or self financed doesn't come that far into the equation. Maybe an insurance cheque happens, maybe it doesn't.
Is repair viable... really?
Did you have a frame repaired but it was never the same again? Did you find it easy to sell a repaired or broken frame?
Did your repaired frame feel just like new?
Is repair viable... really?
Did you have a frame repaired but it was never the same again? Did you find it easy to sell a repaired or broken frame?
Did your repaired frame feel just like new?
Edited by idiotgap on Monday 17th October 21:16
I've seen repairs by these guys http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/fl/fl_frame_repairs.ht...
Been around a long time from what I've read.
They were really helpful when I asked them about getting a one-off part made.
Been around a long time from what I've read.
They were really helpful when I asked them about getting a one-off part made.
Yes, a repair is viable. Carbon isn't magic, it's a bunch of fibres enclosed in a resin matrix. If the repair is done well, it makes naff all difference that some of the carbon was laid down a few years later than the rest.
It will not be exactly the same. It will be a different carbon layup, there will be some small changes to the properties of the frame. Will they be noticeable? Probably not. It will also (probably) be repaired with a wet-layup rather than a pre-preg & baked approach. Chances are it'll actually be stronger around the repaired area.
Will it take a hit on resale? For sure. Precisely because of the reason this thread is here, and because there are plenty of other options that mean nobody needs to buy it. That said, there's plenty of paranoia about buying secondhand carbon anyway.
Bottom line, unless it's something special or you're attached to it, it's probably not worth the expense of fixing, but there's no technical reason why not.
It will not be exactly the same. It will be a different carbon layup, there will be some small changes to the properties of the frame. Will they be noticeable? Probably not. It will also (probably) be repaired with a wet-layup rather than a pre-preg & baked approach. Chances are it'll actually be stronger around the repaired area.
Will it take a hit on resale? For sure. Precisely because of the reason this thread is here, and because there are plenty of other options that mean nobody needs to buy it. That said, there's plenty of paranoia about buying secondhand carbon anyway.
Bottom line, unless it's something special or you're attached to it, it's probably not worth the expense of fixing, but there's no technical reason why not.
idiotgap said:
Money isn't an issue really. Insurance or self financed doesn't come that far into the equation. Maybe an insurance cheque happens, maybe it doesn't.
Is repair viable... really?
Did you have a frame repaired but it was never the same again? Did you find it easy to sell a repaired or broken frame?
Did your repaired frame feel just like new?
No I bought a bike from a friend who was knocked off whilst riding, the driver paid for a replacement and he sold me the knackered bike, the plan was to get out repaired by Rob, but Rob said it was too far gone and in difficult to fix areas but I was able to rob it of the salvageable parts and throw them on a cheap planet X frame.Is repair viable... really?
Did you have a frame repaired but it was never the same again? Did you find it easy to sell a repaired or broken frame?
Did your repaired frame feel just like new?
Edited by idiotgap on Monday 17th October 21:16
So basically each repair is unique, some are repairable, others are not but get at least two opinions before making a decision. Rob could tell from the pictures, another guy wanted me to send it first.
idiotgap said:
Money isn't an issue really. Insurance or self financed doesn't come that far into the equation. Maybe an insurance cheque happens, maybe it doesn't.
Is repair viable... really?
Did you have a frame repaired but it was never the same again? Did you find it easy to sell a repaired or broken frame?
Did your repaired frame feel just like new?
I don't get it, this reads like you are going to claim £3k for a new frame then pay £200 to get it repaired ! Is repair viable... really?
Did you have a frame repaired but it was never the same again? Did you find it easy to sell a repaired or broken frame?
Did your repaired frame feel just like new?
Edited by idiotgap on Monday 17th October 21:16
I might be reading what you are saying wrong,
claim get a new frame , end off, IMO.
If a repair is carried out properly there is no reason why it would be a problem. Although composites, when hit, will show the obvious damage there will also be surrounding damage that wont be so obvious. This is where the quality of the repair will be by finding and repairing the barely visible damage.
Carbon HQ in Norwich and the one in Dorking both come recommended.
I had a Zipp wheel repaired by the former, it was a fantastic job.
A mate of mine had his Cervelo done by Carbon Hq when he snapped the top tube and it was fine, and he was putting more watts through it than just about anyone I know, so there is no issue. Only thing is that I think the Dorking one also paint them after, not sure if the other place do painting..
I had a Zipp wheel repaired by the former, it was a fantastic job.
A mate of mine had his Cervelo done by Carbon Hq when he snapped the top tube and it was fine, and he was putting more watts through it than just about anyone I know, so there is no issue. Only thing is that I think the Dorking one also paint them after, not sure if the other place do painting..
Porsche911R said:
I don't get it, this reads like you are going to claim £3k for a new frame then pay £200 to get it repaired !
I might be reading what you are saying wrong,
claim get a new frame , end off, IMO.
I can't see why that'd be a problem, really. Buying back a written-off car as 'salvage' was, in the past, very much a 'thing'. It's just that in the case of bicycles the insurance company rarely wants the hassle of taking your knackered bike off you, as there's no real financial value in the parts, nor is there an established salvage/disposal system for bicycles. The admin costs would end up costing them money for very little, or even no return.I might be reading what you are saying wrong,
claim get a new frame , end off, IMO.
Comparative Example: I had a car written of as "beyond economical repair" despite a main dealer bodyshop manager (mate of my dad) stating that it was well worth repairing. I took a cheque for £1885 as settlement. Then a chap from Devon (independant bodyshop owner) wrote to me asking for history on the car. He'd bought it as salvage, and repaired it. I bought it back for £1700 and got my car back better than it had been when I crashed it, with £185 tucked in my back pocket. I even re-insured it with the same company as had paid out on it, all above board.
So the OP makes a claim, either for a replacement bike, or for the cash to put him back in the position he was in prior to the collision. If the insurer wants to take the old bike away, fine. If not, then the OP has the bones of a second bike, either by buying a frame and transfering over the components, or by repairing the broken one. Ultimately it'll be the decision of whoever pays out - effectively they are buying you out of ownership of the crashed bike.
Bike-related example: A van crashed into me. Broke my bike and my shoulder blade. I tried to negotiate directly with the van driver's insurer. They recommended I get a solicitor. So it went down the personal injury route, and where I'd have been happy with £2k to £3k as a settlement, I ended up with over £14k in my pocket after the solicitor took his cut. I bought a new bike with some of the money, enjoyed myself with some more of it, and used a good deal of it on daily living costs as I was out of work at the time of the crash. I STILL have the bike from the crash on the wall in my garage, waiting to either be assessed for repair or to donate it's Ultegra groupset and finishing kit to a new frame. The driver's insurer never even enquired as to the state of the bike. My solicitor warned me that I might have to have it assessed by a shop to decide if it was indeed a "write-off" but in the end they just accepted that it was broken, paid out, and washed their hands of the case. They just weren't interested beyond settling and moving on.
In my (limited) experience, and it's also the view of my solicitor, insurance companies are very risk-averse when it comes to bicycles. With a car it's simple. The value of the car versus the (likely) cost of repairs informs the repair decision. Motor insurers don't have a 'pet' bicycle repair firm they can turn to for repair estimates, and, just as many of us cyclists do, they see frame repairs as some kind of 'black art'. I was told that them going down the frame repair route was the least likely outcome, simply because they fear that any subsequent frame failure will be blamed on the repair and then they'll end up doubly liable. Replace the bike and leave you with the old one too, that's the most likely outcome. Any decision to repair and recommission that frame is then left to you, the owner. If you have it repaired, the risk is shared between you and your chosen repairer. The insurer who paid out for the original collision will bear no liability in the event the repair fails.
"The one in Dorking" is actually in Leatherhead, just outside the M25, if it's the one that was recommended to me. In the end I didn't go down the repair route, but several people, including local independent bike shop owners, have pointed me in their direction...
http://www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk/
http://www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk/
yellowjack said:
"The one in Dorking" is actually in Leatherhead, just outside the M25, if it's the one that was recommended to me. In the end I didn't go down the repair route, but several people, including local independent bike shop owners, have pointed me in their direction...
http://www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk/
Another thumbs up for these guys. Took my bike there to have it checked over and was given the all clear after the mech hanger snapped and took a tiny bit off the rear dropout. Apparently its nearly all resin at that point so no issue, but better to be safe than sorry!http://www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk/
They had a lot of very sorry looking high end bike frames in there for repair. I doubt they'd last long in business if the repairs were bad / dangerous / likely to fail again
yellowjack said:
"The one in Dorking" is actually in Leatherhead, just outside the M25, if it's the one that was recommended to me. In the end I didn't go down the repair route, but several people, including local independent bike shop owners, have pointed me in their direction...
http://www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk/
They repaired my frame when the internal cable exit guide snapped off. top notch. http://www.carbonbikerepair.co.uk/
I don't see the problem in repairing a writeoff, whether it's a car, bike or wheelbarrow. I've done this for a BER bike that was about £800 new replacement. The insurers paid out, after a fashion, adding it into the mix for the final settlement which was of course a MUCH bigger number bearing in mind multiple injuries and substantial lost earnings. Essentially the bike's value was lost in the noise. They had however given me permission to dispose of it as I saw fit. I bought 2 new wheels, saddle and a set of forks, £200 ish, and fixed it. The scuffed up bits got reused. If I'd replaced them to return the thing to its pre-accident condition the parts cost would indeed have exceeded its residual value (say £300-400. What's the problem with repairing something that's been damaged, provided the repairs are safe?
If you saw how slap and dash many of these frames are (especially the fake Colnago's like the above vs the Lugged ones) on the inside, you'd soon realise that the repair is likely better than the initial job.
I looked inside my S Works Frame and its a disgrace, sharp carbon bits poking out everywhere, looks like it took about 2 minutes to make.
I looked inside my S Works Frame and its a disgrace, sharp carbon bits poking out everywhere, looks like it took about 2 minutes to make.
Fake! 
Sincerely, thanks to all for the notes and views. That outfit in Surrey have done a bit of work for wiggo personally and team sky which is reassuring, as is, not entirely unexpectedly the heft of their quote compared with others.
It's just great to hear that it is possibility.
The insurance aspects of this are a little complex. I didn't get details of the driver to begin with and had to stake out the crash site the next day at the same time to get them, initially they wanted to settle with me directly in cash but changed their mind when they found out the likely costs which were based on an LBS declaring the frame dead and my assessment of how much I'd need to get something similar 2nd hand.
I am dealing directly with their insurer now, but it's not settled yet. I could end up with enough to buy a new bike (particularly while there are still some run out 2016 models around), I might not. They have said they don't want the bike though.
I have a £200 2nd hand 2009 specialized allez i bought to get started on the road back in 2014 that I can get about on in the meantime while they take their time and I work out what I am going to do.
Regardless of payout or not, I'm fundamentally in the same position in that I have both a broken carbon framed bike and a desire to have a working carbon framed bike. I'm just assessing the panoply of options at the moment. Understanding if carbon repair in general is viable helps with that.
- repair it, ride it and buy n+1 (enduralgroad?)
- sell it as is, add proceeds to any payout and buy something else
- repair it, then sell it
- Repair the frame, harvest the 105 gruppo for my allez, have that resprayed in gulf colours to recognise it's Le Mans heritage and make it a nicer winter bike, buy campag group and wheels for the repaired frame
I read an interesting thread the other day, I forget which forum, I think mostly US contributors on it. The gist was that carbon repair is so popular that crashed carbon has been going for over the top money on ebay, such is the competition for a 'bargain'. By the time you actually do the frame repair and paint you may as well have bought a non-crashed one.
Sincerely, thanks to all for the notes and views. That outfit in Surrey have done a bit of work for wiggo personally and team sky which is reassuring, as is, not entirely unexpectedly the heft of their quote compared with others.
It's just great to hear that it is possibility.
The insurance aspects of this are a little complex. I didn't get details of the driver to begin with and had to stake out the crash site the next day at the same time to get them, initially they wanted to settle with me directly in cash but changed their mind when they found out the likely costs which were based on an LBS declaring the frame dead and my assessment of how much I'd need to get something similar 2nd hand.
I am dealing directly with their insurer now, but it's not settled yet. I could end up with enough to buy a new bike (particularly while there are still some run out 2016 models around), I might not. They have said they don't want the bike though.
I have a £200 2nd hand 2009 specialized allez i bought to get started on the road back in 2014 that I can get about on in the meantime while they take their time and I work out what I am going to do.
Regardless of payout or not, I'm fundamentally in the same position in that I have both a broken carbon framed bike and a desire to have a working carbon framed bike. I'm just assessing the panoply of options at the moment. Understanding if carbon repair in general is viable helps with that.
- repair it, ride it and buy n+1 (enduralgroad?)
- sell it as is, add proceeds to any payout and buy something else
- repair it, then sell it
- Repair the frame, harvest the 105 gruppo for my allez, have that resprayed in gulf colours to recognise it's Le Mans heritage and make it a nicer winter bike, buy campag group and wheels for the repaired frame
I read an interesting thread the other day, I forget which forum, I think mostly US contributors on it. The gist was that carbon repair is so popular that crashed carbon has been going for over the top money on ebay, such is the competition for a 'bargain'. By the time you actually do the frame repair and paint you may as well have bought a non-crashed one.
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