16 months in prison...

[croyde]

Red Devil said:

And this - http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyc...

Interesting. Funnily enough I do tend to treat driving the same as when I'm flying a plane or an x-wing

Am I the only person that bodily moves myself out of my seat just to double check my mirrors from a different angle as well as looking behind when I change lanes?

I'm not a saint and do drive too fast but I treat the whole experience seriously, unlike the rest of the muppets on the road who seem to be more intent on stuffing their faces, playing tweetbook or having animated discussions with their passengers or phones.

I just don't think, in general, that people treat driving as being a serious undertaking like flying. After all we drive much much closer to other cars then planes do to other planes.

OK there are a few exceptions ie The Red Arrows.

[popeyewhite]

herewego said:

popeyewhite said:

Red Devil said:

And this - http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyc...

Some of the information concerning saccades in that report is incorrect. Probably a mistake by the reporter from Londoncyclist.

Can you give us a link to more accurate information?

There's a great deal of information about saccades available on the internet. One point the article raises though is that it's possible to 'miss' something when the eye is moving between fixations. It is unlikely that you would miss something during a saccade - these take milliseconds and are merely movements between fixations. Moreover the time it takes the visual cortex to register visual information is <80 ms.... something would have to be travelling very, very fast for a person to 'miss' it!

[xjay1337]

My thoughts are.

Worse accidents have happened, people have not been sent to jail.

I don't think the driver (obviously, taking into account it's not human nature to try and kill someone) intentionally harmed someone.

Some blame has to be with the truck/trailer thing - For not stopping in a suitable place.

I don't think a 5 year driving ban is justice at all.

[Sheepshanks]

croyde said:

Am I the only person that bodily moves myself out of my seat just to double check my mirrors from a different angle as well as looking behind when I change lanes?

Anyone who has done any advanced driver training would have been taught that.

Not just for checking mirrors either - it's easy for a bike or person to be caught in the blind spot created by the car's A posts.

[Pachydermus]

Sheepshanks said:

Anyone who has done any advanced driver training would have been taught that.

unfortunately, even on here, people who do advanced training are seen as weirdos.
"I've been driving for 100 years and not crashed so I've got nothing to learn"

[Sheepshanks]

Pachydermus said:

unfortunately, even on here, people who do advanced training are seen as weirdos.
"I've been driving for 100 years and not crashed so I've got nothing to learn"

We had to do it at work.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 20th October 12:21

[wack]

croyde said:

I was on the M6 the other day, traffic at a standstill due to an accident. Must of been bad as the emergency helicopter turned up.

We hadn't moved for about only 10 minutes when people started flying down the hard shoulder. Cars and lorries and really shifting.

If someone had been pulled over, they would not have stood a chance.

That's dangerous driving which should be an instant driving ban, I'm more important than you so I don't have to wait.

what this guy did falls under due care and attention IMO , sending him to prison does no good, what's he going to do when he comes out, pay more attention, just the fact he killed someone is a life sentence

I will freely admit that I've had periods in the past when I worked as a long distance courier where I can't remember the last 5 miles, empty roads at 2am, anyone who drives long distances loses concentration, highway hypnosis the americans call it.

I know a guy who has been convinced of drunk driving twice, and not just a bit over, proper pissed, second time in court he was bricking it, £10,000 fine and or 2 years inside.

came out from court bouncing with a 3 year ban and a £500 fine, not even a weeks wages.

2 years in prison and a £4000 fine MAY have made others think twice if it'd been reported in the paper

[Pachydermus]

Sheepshanks said:

Pachydermus said:

unfortunately, even on here, people who do advanced training are seen as weirdos.
"I've been driving for 100 years and not crashed so I've got nothing to learn"

We had to do it at work.

everyone should do it - even if you disagree with some of it (wheel shuffling being everyone's favourite) at least it gets you thinking about what you're doing.

[herewego]

xjay1337 said:

My thoughts are.

Worse accidents have happened, people have not been sent to jail.

I don't think the driver (obviously, taking into account it's not human nature to try and kill someone) intentionally harmed someone.

Some blame has to be with the truck/trailer thing - For not stopping in a suitable place.

I don't think a 5 year driving ban is justice at all.

If he'd done it intentionally it would be manslaughter or even murder.

You don't run into a massive stationary truck unless you've got something wrong. Sometimes you have to stop in an inconvenient place. Drivers are supposed to look where they're going.

[herewego]

popeyewhite said:

herewego said:

popeyewhite said:

Red Devil said:

And this - http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyc...

Some of the information concerning saccades in that report is incorrect. Probably a mistake by the reporter from Londoncyclist.

Can you give us a link to more accurate information?

There's a great deal of information about saccades available on the internet. One point the article raises though is that it's possible to 'miss' something when the eye is moving between fixations. It is unlikely that you would miss something during a saccade - these take milliseconds and are merely movements between fixations. Moreover the time it takes the visual cortex to register visual information is <80 ms.... something would have to be travelling very, very fast for a person to 'miss' it!

That's the basis of the whole article so you're saying the whole article is rubbish?

[popeyewhite]

herewego said:

That's the basis of the whole article so you're saying the whole article is rubbish?

It's not and I'm not, but actually there's more inaccuracies in the article than just those concerning saccades.

[handpaper]

Ken Figenus said:

Clear now on location - an offslip for J28 E. Guess the red car is the Scenic? I conclude it makes little real sense - hence the guilty plea? Tragic.

I know this stretch of road quite well - it's a long, blind (hill, bushes) left hander. If, as many do, the driver had only just joined the M4 from the A48M about 1/2 a mile earlier, he would have been rounding a left-hand bend for 3/4 of a mile, severely reducing the distance ahead he could see in his lane.
Also, the M4 beyond this slip goes steeply uphill. The lights of vehicles in the opposite carriageway are often a problem to Eastbound drivers.

[caelite]

I'm sure a legal bod will correct me as to why this isn't the case but why is this not Driving without Due Care & Attention rather than dangerous driving? No criminal intend was intended, no road safety laws where broken prior to the incident, the deceased party created an unexpected situation by stopping on a carriageway. I know its a tragic incident and punishment should be handed out but it seems like the core cause of the incident was a momentary lack of concentration rather than any criminal intent, or blatant unsafe actions.

Or does the offence automatically get ramped up to DD when a death is involved?

[Ken Figenus]

handpaper said:

The lights of vehicles in the opposite carriageway are often a problem to Eastbound drivers.

Those coming downhill (Westbound) would have their lights pointing even more 'down'? And the right curve of the motorway would point their lights left - not more right into the opposite carriageway?

[heebeegeetee]

caelite said:

I'm sure a legal bod will correct me as to why this isn't the case but why is this not Driving without Due Care & Attention rather than dangerous driving? No criminal intend was intended, no road safety laws where broken prior to the incident, the deceased party created an unexpected situation by stopping on a carriageway. I know its a tragic incident and punishment should be handed out but it seems like the core cause of the incident was a momentary lack of concentration rather than any criminal intent, or blatant unsafe actions.

Or does the offence automatically get ramped up to DD when a death is involved?

I'm sorry to bang on about this but I disagree. It should not be unexpected that a vehicle had stopped, it's a commonplace occurrence and something to look out for, plus the court heard that this was far from a momentary lapse.

[Pete317]

Ken Figenus said:

handpaper said:

The lights of vehicles in the opposite carriageway are often a problem to Eastbound drivers.

Those coming downhill (Westbound) would have their lights pointing even more 'down'? And the right curve of the motorway would point their lights left - not more right into the opposite carriageway?

This is more or less where it occurred: https://goo.gl/maps/zFoWeUcYHWN2

[rxe]

heebeegeetee said:

I'm sorry to bang on about this but I disagree. It should not be unexpected that a vehicle had stopped, it's a commonplace occurrence and something to look out for, plus the court heard that this was far from a momentary lapse.

I don't think I've ever been on a free flowing motorway and come across a single stationary vehicle in my lane (either 2m across it, or fully blocking it). I've been on loads of motorways where the car in front has been stationary, but that's generally because they are in a queue of traffic.

I doubt there is anyone on here who has not made a similar mistake when driving - the difference is that nothing happened. As someone posted up thread, there are very few people who could precisely describe what has happened to them for the last 3 motorway junctions. When I was commuting on the M4 a few years ago, I'd occasionally arrive at my junction with a level of surprise. Presumably my brain had been processing information correctly in the preceding 20 minutes, it must have been as I never hit anyone....

The problem with prison is that it is meant to punish and deter. I'm not sure what this guy will do differently when he gets out, and I'm not sure what everyone else is meant to learn from his example, other than "random bad st happens".

[Pachydermus]

rxe said:

I doubt there is anyone on here who has not made a similar mistake when driving

I once rounded a blind bend on a country road to find a tonne of beef wandering in the road.
Fortunately I was doing half the speed I could legally do as I was taught from the start that I should always be able to stop in the distance I could see to be clear. If not I probably wouldn't be here now as hitting a bull at 60mph in a mk2 escort isn't going to end well.
So while I've made my share of mistakes while driving, driving with my eyes closed for 6+ seconds isn't one of them.

[Ken Figenus]

Pete317 said:

This is more or less where it occurred: https://goo.gl/maps/zFoWeUcYHWN2

I have to conclude that there is no way in a million years that I would be changing an offside or any tyre at that position and especially at night. Drive it on the rim slowly, whatever, just get to the nearest a safer place to do it in case, for whatever reason, someone slams into you...

[Who_Goes_Blue]

And then you get sentences like this
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/14816756.Mum...

Summary - driver looking at childs phone creeps into opposing traffic resulting in the death of a pensioner. 8 months suspended sentence and a 2 year driving ban. If anything this warrants a much harsher sentence than the chap in the subject of this thread.
Assume it is the difference between careless and dangerous.