Free drinks sold with adult 'biscuits'

[surveyor]

OK

Probably not the type of biscuits you first think of.

For many years our local school has given a free beer/glass of wine with the purchase of a biscuit/gingerbread man etc at PTA events. The belief is that this gets around Licensing as they are not selling the alcohol.

They now have a troublemaker, who is making trouble.....

My suspicion is that this loophole may have been closed some time ago, and they have got away with it as no ones creates meddles. but I don't know enough.... Time is too short to apply for a Temporary Licence.

Anyone have experience?

[HTP99]

Can you not ask for a "donation" for the alcohol?

[KungFuPanda]

I'd forge ahead. I really doubt the licensing authorities are going to bother this one time. Save the TENS for the next event.

[battered]

It doesn't get round the law. No more than the old chestnut about avoiding VAT on hot food by charging £5 for a bread roll and giving away free fish and chips. The law may be an ass, the magistrates aren't.

The question is whether it will be enforced. To date, no. It's not doing any harm, it's an infrequent event. The enforcement agencies have better things to do. That is until there's a complaint and they may have to.

Similar considerations apply to these "pay what you feel" cafes that run on donated out-of-date food. If food is made and sold using stuff after its Use By then this is an offence. The cafes say "it's not being sold, it's a donation" but this is bks as we all know what's going on. If an attractive girl of 20 went to bed with me or anyone else in exchange for a "donation" of £80, we all know what this really is, and the courts would deal with us accordingly.

[KungFuPanda]

Anyway, who's the freaking troublemaker???

[surveyor]

Chair of the local Pre-school. She's raised it once before.

One of her committee has given word that she's looking into it more actively..... While enforcement risk seems slight it's there, and who really needs that stress.

They have not bough the booze yet, so it may be cut down numbers of non-alcoholic beer and wine this time around...

[E31Shrew]

Might be wrong but didn't some shops sell an orange and give away a free bible, on Sundays? Not even sure why I mentioned that......

[otolith]

Is her concern that they might get into trouble for it, or does she just want it stopped on principle?

[Reg Local]

When is the event due to take place?

[surveyor]

otolith said:

Is her concern that they might get into trouble for it, or does she just want it stopped on principle?

I think it's on principle as she is not on the school committee.

[jkh112]

The school events I attend often charge for tickets. At these events refreshments are free and wIne is one of the provided refreshments.
Is this a way ahead?

[otolith]

surveyor said:

I think it's on principle as she is not on the school committee.

Miserable cow!

[InitialDave]

surveyor said:

I think it's on principle as she is not on the school committee.

Slip a small child a couple of quid to tug on her sleeve and innocently ask "What does 'insufferable ' mean, miss?"

[sparkythecat]

I'm curious to know why you've felt the need to try and circumvent the licensing requirement ? A temporary event notice only costs £21 and you can apply on line.

https://www.gov.uk/temporary-events-notice

[deckster]

Why not just get a temporary licence? We do that regularly for our scout events and it's neither expensive nor onerous.

http://www.pta.co.uk/licences/keep-it-legal/faqs-t...

[Rovinghawk]

battered said:

If an attractive girl of 20 went to bed with me or anyone else in exchange for a "donation" of £80, we all know what this really is, and the courts would deal with us accordingly.

Bearing in mind that there's no law against prostitution I presume you mean that courts would decide it's none of their business?

[surveyor]

sparkythecat said:

I'm curious to know why you've felt the need to try and circumvent the licensing requirement ? A temporary event notice only costs £21 and you can apply on line.

https://www.gov.uk/temporary-events-notice

The event is on Thursday which rules out a temporary license. It's a small village, events have run like this for the last 20! Years.... never been a problem until now.

[battered]

Rovinghawk said:

battered said:

If an attractive girl of 20 went to bed with me or anyone else in exchange for a "donation" of £80, we all know what this really is, and the courts would deal with us accordingly.

Bearing in mind that there's no law against prostitution I presume you mean that courts would decide it's none of their business?

I mean that the court would decide whether anyone had engaged in soliciting, or running a disorderly house, and deal with the offenders accordingly. I think the courts would take a very lively interest in that. But you knew that already.

[sparkythecat]

surveyor said:

sparkythecat said:

I'm curious to know why you've felt the need to try and circumvent the licensing requirement ? A temporary event notice only costs £21 and you can apply on line.

https://www.gov.uk/temporary-events-notice

The event is on Thursday which rules out a temporary license. It's a small village, events have run like this for the last 20! Years.... never been a problem until now.

I thought you said that the Chair of the local preschool had raised it once before?

You'll either have to accept the consequences of any enforcement, or postpone the event until your sure it's legal.

[Reg Local]

surveyor said:

The event is on Thursday which rules out a temporary license. It's a small village, events have run like this for the last 20! Years.... never been a problem until now.

The Licensing Act 2003 was amended in 2011 to create "late temporary event notices". Rather than the minimum of 10 days notice required for a standard TEN, a late TEN can be submitted up to 5 working days before the event. Alas, however, you're correct - it's now too late even for a late TEN.

I'm the Licensing Manager for a local authority & this situation comes up quite regularly. My advice to schools & community organisations in this situation is generally that I cannot formally give permission for the event to go ahead, but I have no intention of asking my enforcement officers or the police to visit the event. It's up to the organisers to make sure it goes ahead without any issues & for goodness sake, apply for a TEN in plenty of time next time you're planning an event!