Any Property Boundary Expert On Here?
Discussion
Hello,
We have recently bought a property and have moved in. The house next door to us is under council ownership and the tenants from what we understand have been there quite a long time. When we bought the property we were told that some of the land on the left of our house (that at first glance appears to be next door's front garden) belongs to us. When I asked how much, they said they weren't sure and to check the title plan. Anyway throughout the process of buying the house this was glossed over somewhat and also forgotten on my part which has resulted in me being unsure whether I own the bit of land or not.
Here is my house on the title plan -
As you can see, the boundary line on the left runs from the back of the property to the path at the front of the property, widening slightly at the path that runs along the front of the house parallel to the road. If you look at the pictures of the house as it stands today you will notice that the garden fence stops at the entrance from our driveway, and then in front of that is the grass that looks like next door's front garden. If the fence in the garden continued all the way to the front of the drive and up to the path then I believe it would put some of this land to the left of my driveway inside my boundary. Take a look at the pictures below and hopefully you can see what I mean -
Picture of my garden fence meeting the panel that has the entrance door from the drive.
Picture showing how the panel that has the entrance door from the drive looks when standing on the drive.
Picture when standing at the top of the drive, hopefully you can still see the fence panel from the garden to the left of the door to enter the garden.
So basically what I want to know is do you think looking at everything that I've shown you that I own some of the land to the left of my drive?
A part of me thinks that I do based on the fact that if the fence from my garden ran all the way to the top of the drive that some of the land would be on my side of the fence. The other part of me could see that I don't as I have heard some people say that boundaries shown on title plans are not always as they are on paper and in reality can be defined by physical features such as hedges and I guess in my case a driveway edge.
You may also be wondering why does it even matter for such a small piece of land? Well if it is mine, I would like to put a short fence on it which I am planning to do anyway it will just be a question of whether it goes on the edge of my drive or on the land to the left of it. It is also a case of principle, this is my first house and if the land is rightly mine then I want it! The other thing to consider is that when we viewed the house, the attempt of a shingled area was not there and this has been done during the time of us viewing the house and moving in. Based on this I would assume the council tenant next door thinks the land is theirs, to be clear we have had no dialect whatsoever about this yet. I was hoping that after seeing some responses on here I could get some advice on how to approach that if the consensus is that I do own it. I don't want things to be bad with the neighbour, but at the same time if the land is mine then they shouldn't be bitter about it.
Finally, I have shown my solicitors the same pictures and her opinion was that we don't own the land to the left of the drive, but she said that she is not a surveyor and to be honest I don't think she looked at the pictures properly!
So if anyone on here has experience in this area or just an opinion I'd be interested to hear it.
TL;DR - There's some land next to my driveway that I think I might own, but I'm not sure and not sure what to do next.
We have recently bought a property and have moved in. The house next door to us is under council ownership and the tenants from what we understand have been there quite a long time. When we bought the property we were told that some of the land on the left of our house (that at first glance appears to be next door's front garden) belongs to us. When I asked how much, they said they weren't sure and to check the title plan. Anyway throughout the process of buying the house this was glossed over somewhat and also forgotten on my part which has resulted in me being unsure whether I own the bit of land or not.
Here is my house on the title plan -
As you can see, the boundary line on the left runs from the back of the property to the path at the front of the property, widening slightly at the path that runs along the front of the house parallel to the road. If you look at the pictures of the house as it stands today you will notice that the garden fence stops at the entrance from our driveway, and then in front of that is the grass that looks like next door's front garden. If the fence in the garden continued all the way to the front of the drive and up to the path then I believe it would put some of this land to the left of my driveway inside my boundary. Take a look at the pictures below and hopefully you can see what I mean -
Picture of my garden fence meeting the panel that has the entrance door from the drive.
Picture showing how the panel that has the entrance door from the drive looks when standing on the drive.
Picture when standing at the top of the drive, hopefully you can still see the fence panel from the garden to the left of the door to enter the garden.
So basically what I want to know is do you think looking at everything that I've shown you that I own some of the land to the left of my drive?
A part of me thinks that I do based on the fact that if the fence from my garden ran all the way to the top of the drive that some of the land would be on my side of the fence. The other part of me could see that I don't as I have heard some people say that boundaries shown on title plans are not always as they are on paper and in reality can be defined by physical features such as hedges and I guess in my case a driveway edge.
You may also be wondering why does it even matter for such a small piece of land? Well if it is mine, I would like to put a short fence on it which I am planning to do anyway it will just be a question of whether it goes on the edge of my drive or on the land to the left of it. It is also a case of principle, this is my first house and if the land is rightly mine then I want it! The other thing to consider is that when we viewed the house, the attempt of a shingled area was not there and this has been done during the time of us viewing the house and moving in. Based on this I would assume the council tenant next door thinks the land is theirs, to be clear we have had no dialect whatsoever about this yet. I was hoping that after seeing some responses on here I could get some advice on how to approach that if the consensus is that I do own it. I don't want things to be bad with the neighbour, but at the same time if the land is mine then they shouldn't be bitter about it.
Finally, I have shown my solicitors the same pictures and her opinion was that we don't own the land to the left of the drive, but she said that she is not a surveyor and to be honest I don't think she looked at the pictures properly!
So if anyone on here has experience in this area or just an opinion I'd be interested to hear it.
TL;DR - There's some land next to my driveway that I think I might own, but I'm not sure and not sure what to do next.
Edited by Al U on Friday 21st October 15:11
Well. I can see your point, in that there is not a straight line continuing from your rear garden fence, through the gate fence, and then down the length of the drive.
However. For the sake of a foot of width, it sounds like a massive can of worms. Plus, if you put a fence there, it will only make it more difficult to open your car door.
I'd leave it as is for a happy life
However. For the sake of a foot of width, it sounds like a massive can of worms. Plus, if you put a fence there, it will only make it more difficult to open your car door.
I'd leave it as is for a happy life
If the rear fence line is correct I'd agree with you however, if the rear fence line isn't right the neighbouring property could be due what currently appears to be your land due to it being too far over.
While the drive looks like its been in place a good while and you don't know the layout before it was there it would be strange to put a drive in only marginally short of the boundry. I'd expect it to be on the boundry or at least a wheel barrows width spare.
IMO its a bit of a can of worms and if it was me I'd ask the neighbours about the possibility of you putting a fence up before going down the 'I think this land is mine' route.
While the drive looks like its been in place a good while and you don't know the layout before it was there it would be strange to put a drive in only marginally short of the boundry. I'd expect it to be on the boundry or at least a wheel barrows width spare.
IMO its a bit of a can of worms and if it was me I'd ask the neighbours about the possibility of you putting a fence up before going down the 'I think this land is mine' route.
I think the answer is probably yes....
If you look at the title it shows the left hand boundary as being straight.... If I'm reading your photo's correctly at the end of the drive, and in line you have a gate to the rear garden, There is then an additional fence panel to the left of that gate?
I suspect (but am not certain) that if you extend the fence line separating you and your neighbours garden, you are likely to be following the correct boundary.
In this situation, talking to your neighbours before building barriers would certainly do no harm....
If you look at the title it shows the left hand boundary as being straight.... If I'm reading your photo's correctly at the end of the drive, and in line you have a gate to the rear garden, There is then an additional fence panel to the left of that gate?
I suspect (but am not certain) that if you extend the fence line separating you and your neighbours garden, you are likely to be following the correct boundary.
In this situation, talking to your neighbours before building barriers would certainly do no harm....
Not a boundary expert but I think the OP is correct. It looks like 400 to 500 of the grass strip is yours. I notice though that none of the other houses have front boundaries marked so if you put a fence up it might look a bit precious. Do the others have front fences? I wouldn't be accepting that gravel though.
hornetrider said:
Well. I can see your point, in that there is not a straight line continuing from your rear garden fence, through the gate fence, and then down the length of the drive.
However. For the sake of a foot of width, it sounds like a massive can of worms. Plus, if you put a fence there, it will only make it more difficult to open your car door.
I'd leave it as is for a happy life
Well that is the thing, if the land is mine I can have the fence far away enough from the drive that it won't have any impact on door opening.However. For the sake of a foot of width, it sounds like a massive can of worms. Plus, if you put a fence there, it will only make it more difficult to open your car door.
I'd leave it as is for a happy life
Leaving it as is for a happy life is the what my partner has suggested so far.
Edited by Al U on Friday 21st October 16:07
trickywoo said:
If the rear fence line is correct I'd agree with you however, if the rear fence line isn't right the neighbouring property could be due what currently appears to be your land due to it being too far over.
While the drive looks like its been in place a good while and you don't know the layout before it was there it would be strange to put a drive in only marginally short of the boundry. I'd expect it to be on the boundry or at least a wheel barrows width spare.
IMO its a bit of a can of worms and if it was me I'd ask the neighbours about the possibility of you putting a fence up before going down the 'I think this land is mine' route.
That is a very good point and something I hadn't considered. However the wood fence panels in the garden are in line with the concrete posts with wire fence further down the garden that all the gardens have and I assume have been there for a long time. While the drive looks like its been in place a good while and you don't know the layout before it was there it would be strange to put a drive in only marginally short of the boundry. I'd expect it to be on the boundry or at least a wheel barrows width spare.
IMO its a bit of a can of worms and if it was me I'd ask the neighbours about the possibility of you putting a fence up before going down the 'I think this land is mine' route.
surveyor said:
I think the answer is probably yes....
If you look at the title it shows the left hand boundary as being straight.... If I'm reading your photo's correctly at the end of the drive, and in line you have a gate to the rear garden, There is then an additional fence panel to the left of that gate?
I suspect (but am not certain) that if you extend the fence line separating you and your neighbours garden, you are likely to be following the correct boundary.
In this situation, talking to your neighbours before building barriers would certainly do no harm....
An apt username to be commenting on things of this nature!If you look at the title it shows the left hand boundary as being straight.... If I'm reading your photo's correctly at the end of the drive, and in line you have a gate to the rear garden, There is then an additional fence panel to the left of that gate?
I suspect (but am not certain) that if you extend the fence line separating you and your neighbours garden, you are likely to be following the correct boundary.
In this situation, talking to your neighbours before building barriers would certainly do no harm....
Your interpretation of the pictures is also spot on, there is a small fence panel to the left of the door to the garden, I believe that if you drew a line from the left of that fence panel to the front of the drive then some of the land on the left of the house would be on our side of the fence.
When you say talking to the neighbours, how should I even start the conversation? Should I go round there with a title plan and basically say that I am planning to put up a fence soon and there may be some workmen on the grass there and also that you have put your gravel pit on my land? As they are council tenants I imagine they have never seen the title plans to be fair.
Edited by Al U on Friday 21st October 16:11
Edited by Al U on Friday 21st October 16:13
herewego said:
Not a boundary expert but I think the OP is correct. It looks like 400 to 500 of the grass strip is yours. I notice though that none of the other houses have front boundaries marked so if you put a fence up it might look a bit precious. Do the others have front fences? I wouldn't be accepting that gravel though.
I would try to make at is inoffensive as possible. The other houses do have clearly defined boundaries but most of these are with concrete paths or hedges, we are the end of a terrace of about 6 houses and the only one with a drive.Al U said:
Leaving it as is for a happy life is the what my partner has suggested so far.
Sounds like prudent advice.If it's not causing you practical grief, then that might be better than the alternative - which ranges from everything going your way all the way up to acrimonious neighbour issues that you end up having to tell any prospective purchasers about should you want to move in the future. Could easily end up being a pyrrhic victory.
Maybe worth sounding the neighbours out to get a sense of how they might react.
Al U said:
surveyor said:
I think the answer is probably yes....
If you look at the title it shows the left hand boundary as being straight.... If I'm reading your photo's correctly at the end of the drive, and in line you have a gate to the rear garden, There is then an additional fence panel to the left of that gate?
I suspect (but am not certain) that if you extend the fence line separating you and your neighbours garden, you are likely to be following the correct boundary.
In this situation, talking to your neighbours before building barriers would certainly do no harm....
An apt username to be commenting on things of this nature!If you look at the title it shows the left hand boundary as being straight.... If I'm reading your photo's correctly at the end of the drive, and in line you have a gate to the rear garden, There is then an additional fence panel to the left of that gate?
I suspect (but am not certain) that if you extend the fence line separating you and your neighbours garden, you are likely to be following the correct boundary.
In this situation, talking to your neighbours before building barriers would certainly do no harm....
When you say talking to the neighbours, how should I even start the conversation? Should I go round there with a title plan and basically say that I am planning to put up a fence soon and there may be some workmen on the grass there and also that you have put your gravel pit on my land? Where they are council tenants I imagine they have never seen the title plans to be fair.
All this relies on your boundary fence being in the correct position. No way to confirm that from a computer, but it does not at first glance appear massively wrong.
Durzel said:
Al U said:
Leaving it as is for a happy life is the what my partner has suggested so far.
Sounds like prudent advice.If it's not causing you practical grief, then that might be better than the alternative - which ranges from everything going your way all the way up to acrimonious neighbour issues that you end up having to tell any prospective purchasers about should you want to move in the future. Could easily end up being a pyrrhic victory.
Maybe worth sounding the neighbours out to get a sense of how they might react.
surveyor said:
I'd nip around with the title plan - show the straight boundary and explain you'd like to put a fence along.... If they get funny then it's time to involve the council (or more likely the Housing Association).
All this relies on your boundary fence being in the correct position. No way to confirm that from a computer, but it does not at first glance appear massively wrong.
I am confident that the other fences are in the right position, all of the houses on this road are ex-council as far as I am aware and the wire fences in the garden that everyone has are in my mind the boundary markers (which I think is more than a reasonable assumption).All this relies on your boundary fence being in the correct position. No way to confirm that from a computer, but it does not at first glance appear massively wrong.
I think going round there with the title plan is a good shout and just making them aware that I am either going to put a fence or hedgerow along it.
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