Any Property Boundary Expert On Here?

Any Property Boundary Expert On Here?

Author
Discussion

Wacky Racer

38,162 posts

247 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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caelite said:
Build a wall, and make your neighbours pay for it.
Who do you think you are, Donald Trump?

biggrin

Mandat

3,887 posts

238 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Al U said:
This is another thing that I had not considered, would it just be a case of phoning them up and saying I am putting a fence adjacent to your land up soon?
Contact the Council rather than the tenants, since the council are the owners of the neighbouring property.

Once you raise the boundary dispute with the council, you'll need to be prepared to back up your claim that the boundary line is where you say it is. You'll most likely need copies of your property deeds and title plan, and details of the report on title that your conveyancing solicitor would have prepared when you were buying the property.

You might also want to obtain a copy of the title plan / deeds to the neighbouring property, at least to see what they say about the particular boundary in dispute.

As other have already said you might want to make certain that the fencing to the rear garden is actually in the correct location before you embark on raising the boundary issue, as you might end up losing part of your garden if it turns out that the rear fence is in the wrong place.

CoolHands

18,635 posts

195 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Offer to buy th entire larger triangle incorporating the unknown bit off the council. It'll come in handy.

surveyor

17,823 posts

184 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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It's not a dispute yet. It's simply a case of needing to establish it.

The council / Housing Association will take ages to deal with it. Far quicker to deal with the people who will be knowing on your door with hammers if they don't like it now.

If they kick a stink then ask the council for support and see if it turns into a dispute...

Al U

Original Poster:

2,312 posts

131 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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CoolHands said:
Offer to buy th entire larger triangle incorporating the unknown bit off the council. It'll come in handy.
I don't want it to be honest, just what is rightfully mine in the first place.

Al U

Original Poster:

2,312 posts

131 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Mandat said:
Contact the Council rather than the tenants, since the council are the owners of the neighbouring property.

Once you raise the boundary dispute with the council, you'll need to be prepared to back up your claim that the boundary line is where you say it is. You'll most likely need copies of your property deeds and title plan, and details of the report on title that your conveyancing solicitor would have prepared when you were buying the property.

You might also want to obtain a copy of the title plan / deeds to the neighbouring property, at least to see what they say about the particular boundary in dispute.

As other have already said you might want to make certain that the fencing to the rear garden is actually in the correct location before you embark on raising the boundary issue, as you might end up losing part of your garden if it turns out that the rear fence is in the wrong place.
Backing up my claim that the boundary line is where I say it is may be pretty hard when everything on the land registry website basically says that they cannot accurately say where a boundary is and it's usually a physical feature but sometimes not and is better agreed between neighbours!

My title plan shows the boundary of the neighbouring property, you can see it in the image so I don't think there is much point getting that to just realise that the lines we are seeing have become bold and red, no?

About making certain, the only certainty I have is that the fences I have shown pictures of are lined up exactly with the concrete posted wire fences in the back garden that every house in my terrace row has. They are the only common boundary feature on all of the houses.

Al U

Original Poster:

2,312 posts

131 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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surveyor said:
It's not a dispute yet. It's simply a case of needing to establish it.

The council / Housing Association will take ages to deal with it. Far quicker to deal with the people who will be knowing on your door with hammers if they don't like it now.

If they kick a stink then ask the council for support and see if it turns into a dispute...
I think this is a good idea. I think I'll go round there and say that I'm not sure if you are aware but some of the land to the side of the house is actually within our boundary and we are planning to put a hedge/fence up soon. If they get arsey then as you mention I'll just get onto the council and take it from there.

The ideal scenario would be them saying that's fine go ahead and then the only further problems would come from the council challenging me on the fence/boundary.

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

237 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Al U said:
I don't want it to be honest, just what is rightfully mine in the first place.
The earlier comment from 'surveyor' is good advice here, it does look like the intended boundary runs straight along the line of your rear garden fence. However, do be very careful using statements like 'just what is rightfully mine' when it comes to boundaries. What you are looking for is an opinion on where the actual boundary is intended to be, if there is no physical feature the Land registry plans are just not sufficiently accurate to be used to stake definitive claim on what is rightfully yours.

Many a well meaning person has spend fortunes trying to claim something that they think they have a right to. Be warned, and for the sake of your own sanity and wealth, please don't start a boundary dispute on the grounds of 'what is rightfully mine'!

You bought the house without caring how much grass you owned beyond the drive, the next buyer will do the same unless there is an on-going boundary dispute and then you'll have no end of trouble selling, and that will impact on the value of your home much more than 'owning' some grass that you're free to use at the moment.

jkh112

22,012 posts

158 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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One thought I had was to look at the google maps satellite image of your property and see if there is any correlation between the front or rear fence lines to your deeds, it might support your theory or it might show the rear fence line is incorrect (or it might not show anything!)
Post the image here.

Al U

Original Poster:

2,312 posts

131 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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The Surveyor said:
Al U said:
I don't want it to be honest, just what is rightfully mine in the first place.
The earlier comment from 'surveyor' is good advice here, it does look like the intended boundary runs straight along the line of your rear garden fence. However, do be very careful using statements like 'just what is rightfully mine' when it comes to boundaries. What you are looking for is an opinion on where the actual boundary is intended to be, if there is no physical feature the Land registry plans are just not sufficiently accurate to be used to stake definitive claim on what is rightfully yours.

Many a well meaning person has spend fortunes trying to claim something that they think they have a right to. Be warned, and for the sake of your own sanity and wealth, please don't start a boundary dispute on the grounds of 'what is rightfully mine'!

You bought the house without caring how much grass you owned beyond the drive, the next buyer will do the same unless there is an on-going boundary dispute and then you'll have no end of trouble selling, and that will impact on the value of your home much more than 'owning' some grass that you're free to use at the moment.
To be fair a lot of what you say makes sense. When I started this thread I was just looking to gauge opinion really, I had 2 ideas in my mind one of which is more favourable to me and not a single person has looked at it and said I don't think it's yours most the opposite. To be honest the land gives me some options for the future with both fencing the front of the property without having to impact the driveway, extending the driveway slightly or anything else I can think of to do with the bit of land. They are the benefits of if the land is in my boundary, if it isn't in my boundary as you say they are things I can live without but at this stage I think it's worth pursuing.

I'll go and speak to the neighbours during the day tomorrow at some point.

Al U

Original Poster:

2,312 posts

131 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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jkh112 said:
One thought I had was to look at the google maps satellite image of your property and see if there is any correlation between the front or rear fence lines to your deeds, it might support your theory or it might show the rear fence line is incorrect (or it might not show anything!)
Post the image here.
The image even when fully zoomed in is too blurry to draw any conclusions from.

surveyor

17,823 posts

184 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Al U said:
jkh112 said:
One thought I had was to look at the google maps satellite image of your property and see if there is any correlation between the front or rear fence lines to your deeds, it might support your theory or it might show the rear fence line is incorrect (or it might not show anything!)
Post the image here.
The image even when fully zoomed in is too blurry to draw any conclusions from.
Try bing maps too.

hidetheelephants

24,357 posts

193 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Do you know anyone with a drone? If not there are plenty of pro dronists about these days who will swap pinsharp images for not much money(relative the pain you might inflict on yourself if this turns into a dispute).

boyse7en

6,727 posts

165 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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I'd be inclined to leave well alone. Having a good relationship with your neighbors will pay you back a thousand times over compared to a piece of land 2ft x 25ft.

If you suddenly have a desperate need to use that piece of land, and at the moment of struggling to think of one, then that is the time to talk to the neighbors and council about it.
Or, if the neighbors move out, that would be another good time to clarify the boundary with the council.

T6 vanman

3,066 posts

99 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this

slow_poke

1,855 posts

234 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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The time to get this sorted out properly was before you bought. You should've made the vendor sort it if he wanted to sell to you.

Now? You saw what you bought and you bought what you saw.

surveyor

17,823 posts

184 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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boyse7en said:
I'd be inclined to leave well alone. Having a good relationship with your neighbors will pay you back a thousand times over compared to a piece of land 2ft x 25ft.

If you suddenly have a desperate need to use that piece of land, and at the moment of struggling to think of one, then that is the time to talk to the neighbors and council about it.
Or, if the neighbors move out, that would be another good time to clarify the boundary with the council.
That's actually really bad advice. It is possible for the council to end up with title under certain circumstances. OP needs to establish what he owns, and if the neighbour has overstepped to politely deal with it.

The fact that it is council /HA owned will make it easier, as they will look at it black and white, and not we've cut the grass for the last 5 years so it's ours etc.

Chrisgr31

13,478 posts

255 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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I suspect that there may be a covenant on the land which prevents the erection of fences to the front of the houses, which is relatively common. Some may have got round it by using hedges, others might have erected fences and not been challenged.

I am not sure what the real issue is, its not as though next door have fenced in the piece of land so they can't claim adverse possession of it. As it stands they might mow it, but it would look plainly ridiculous if one party mowed their part whilst the neighbour didn't, and if I was the OPs neighbour even if I knew that piece of land was his I'd mow it as it makes sense and is the neighbourly thing to do. For example when I mow the verge outside my house, I mow the verge outside the neighbours, not because I want it, but because I have the mower out, its petrol its easy to do. They have an electric mower so its more difficult for them.

It seems fairly clear from the plans where the boundary is, so I would just leave it until, if, it becomes important, which on the face of it is unlikely.

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

233 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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hornetrider said:
Well. I can see your point, in that there is not a straight line continuing from your rear garden fence, through the gate fence, and then down the length of the drive.

However. For the sake of a foot of width, it sounds like a massive can of worms. Plus, if you put a fence there, it will only make it more difficult to open your car door.

I'd leave it as is for a happy life smile
I am not a boundary expert nor am I a surveyor.

I have also only read this far but can say you going to sstruggleto get a more sensible reply than this.

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

233 months

Friday 21st October 2016
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Well blow me!

now I've read the full thread to here most other than Donald Duck and the bloke who iinsurance companies love have be logical and added to the discussion. There is a common vein of thought here though.

I 100% would leave it for now. Make sure the land is kept cut and tidy.

Yes you ccould spend a few thousand to enforce your claim. That said a covenant not to fence might also be a barrier to your iintended barrier.

Now if the neighbours start to put a fence up to your drive, tthat's when you mention it politely and write to the council to invite their ssurveyors over and pucker up for a quick 'win' or a long, painful and expensive experience with your partner telling you they told you so.

Meantime the Council rehome tenants and move in some whose idea of garden furniture involves a broken tumble drye, various bits of bent metal, a shopping trolley, back seat of an old BMW or Ford and an oil drum for burning 'stuff'.

Meantime, just as you notice the electricity bill is somehow £1397.85 for June your partner finally tells you they are going to stay with their mum for a while.

I may have had a little to drink .

Edited by Rude-boy on Friday 21st October 21:22