Child seat legality...
Discussion
Quick one on this. I have a 30 year old Defender 110SW. For non-Landy types, that's the "estate" version with front doors, rear passenger doors with three forward facing rear seats, as well as the usual back door into the load area.
I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)
Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.
Thanks.
I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)
Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.
Thanks.
Hard-Drive said:
Quick one on this. I have a 30 year old Defender 110SW. For non-Landy types, that's the "estate" version with front doors, rear passenger doors with three forward facing rear seats, as well as the usual back door into the load area.
I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)
Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.
Thanks.
In short, no. Children must be in a rear facing seat until they are 15 months old. I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)
Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.
Thanks.
Personally, there's no way I'd put a baby front facing even if it was legal. Have you watched any videos on rear v front facing seats? I'd recommend you do.
Skyrat said:
Hard-Drive said:
Quick one on this. I have a 30 year old Defender 110SW. For non-Landy types, that's the "estate" version with front doors, rear passenger doors with three forward facing rear seats, as well as the usual back door into the load area.
I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)
Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.
Thanks.
In short, no. Children must be in a rear facing seat until they are 15 months old. I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)
Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.
Thanks.
Personally, there's no way I'd put a baby front facing even if it was legal. Have you watched any videos on rear v front facing seats? I'd recommend you do.
All a bit of a minefield really, but the most important thing is too be happy you have your little one in the safest seat In your view. You would be shocked at the amount of people that don't bother with any restraints for their kids at all (and think it's fine!!)
Landshark said:
I believe that's not exactly true. With current legislation you have two options. The new isize which states the child must be rear facing until 15 months, and the older legislation that works on weight (which I think is over 9kg for forward facing seats).
All a bit of a minefield really, but the most important thing is too be happy you have your little one in the safest seat In your view. You would be shocked at the amount of people that don't bother with any restraints for their kids at all (and think it's fine!!)
I believe you're right. It's a bit confusing. All a bit of a minefield really, but the most important thing is too be happy you have your little one in the safest seat In your view. You would be shocked at the amount of people that don't bother with any restraints for their kids at all (and think it's fine!!)
I still think that putting a ten month old forward facing is madness.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=iV1o-JrsSkE
OK thanks. It was the front seat/back seat bit that I wasn't clear on, however this seems OK.
His car seat will go either way, front or rear facing, however it won't physically fit in the back of the Defender, rear facing, with the current seat arrangements due to that bar I mentioned...it gets in the way (either way round).
I'll try rear facing in the front seat, although according to the manufacturers instructions it is perfectly OK for him to be front facing now (although rear is preferred).
It is a minefield alright (and already infinitely safer than when I grew up!!)
His car seat will go either way, front or rear facing, however it won't physically fit in the back of the Defender, rear facing, with the current seat arrangements due to that bar I mentioned...it gets in the way (either way round).
I'll try rear facing in the front seat, although according to the manufacturers instructions it is perfectly OK for him to be front facing now (although rear is preferred).
It is a minefield alright (and already infinitely safer than when I grew up!!)
Hard-Drive said:
OK thanks. It was the front seat/back seat bit that I wasn't clear on, however this seems OK.
His car seat will go either way, front or rear facing, however it won't physically fit in the back of the Defender, rear facing, with the current seat arrangements due to that bar I mentioned...it gets in the way (either way round).
I'll try rear facing in the front seat, although according to the manufacturers instructions it is perfectly OK for him to be front facing now (although rear is preferred).
It is a minefield alright (and already infinitely safer than when I grew up!!)
Perfectly ok means legal. He's still five times more likely to have serious injuries from a low speed (30mph) frontal collision if he's front facing. It is, however, up to you of course.His car seat will go either way, front or rear facing, however it won't physically fit in the back of the Defender, rear facing, with the current seat arrangements due to that bar I mentioned...it gets in the way (either way round).
I'll try rear facing in the front seat, although according to the manufacturers instructions it is perfectly OK for him to be front facing now (although rear is preferred).
It is a minefield alright (and already infinitely safer than when I grew up!!)
Rear facing to the top of the weight limit of the infant carrier is by far and away the safest option
Front seat is fine without an airbag
Young children have most of their weight in their heads and serious injuries will result from a frontal impact forward facing as the neck has to take a lot of extension. That only begins to go away once they're sitting unaided and crawling but it's the major phisiological changes as they become proper walkers that their bodies start to be a larger proportion of their weight.
My son was 98th %ile for weight and was in his infant carrier to 15 months or more. 10 months is way too early.
Front seat is fine without an airbag
Young children have most of their weight in their heads and serious injuries will result from a frontal impact forward facing as the neck has to take a lot of extension. That only begins to go away once they're sitting unaided and crawling but it's the major phisiological changes as they become proper walkers that their bodies start to be a larger proportion of their weight.
My son was 98th %ile for weight and was in his infant carrier to 15 months or more. 10 months is way too early.
Skyrat said:
I believe you're right. It's a bit confusing.
I still think that putting a ten month old forward facing is madness.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=iV1o-JrsSkE
That's one scary video!! My daughter's since flown the nest, but I remember taking her in the car all those years ago with old fashioned crappy booster seats etc. Thank fI still think that putting a ten month old forward facing is madness.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=iV1o-JrsSkE
k we never crashed....Guys
Thanks for the advice on the legality side of things.
With regards to safety, just to put into perspective, the Defender is not an everyday car, and the trip was a short distance one off. Starting work on swapping the seats over today (renovate the existing frames and chuck all the old upholstery in the bin) so if I do need to put him in the Defender he will now be able to be rear facing in the back anyway.
Thanks for the advice on the legality side of things.
With regards to safety, just to put into perspective, the Defender is not an everyday car, and the trip was a short distance one off. Starting work on swapping the seats over today (renovate the existing frames and chuck all the old upholstery in the bin) so if I do need to put him in the Defender he will now be able to be rear facing in the back anyway.
Adrian E said:
Rear facing to the top of the weight limit of the infant carrier is by far and away the safest option
Front seat is fine without an airbag
Young children have most of their weight in their heads and serious injuries will result from a frontal impact forward facing as the neck has to take a lot of extension. That only begins to go away once they're sitting unaided and crawling but it's the major phisiological changes as they become proper walkers that their bodies start to be a larger proportion of their weight.
My son was 98th %ile for weight and was in his infant carrier to 15 months or more. 10 months is way too early.
In the Scandinavian countries they remain rear-facing until at least 4 years old and 25kg for safety reasons, I intend to keep my little one rear-facing for as long as possible.Front seat is fine without an airbag
Young children have most of their weight in their heads and serious injuries will result from a frontal impact forward facing as the neck has to take a lot of extension. That only begins to go away once they're sitting unaided and crawling but it's the major phisiological changes as they become proper walkers that their bodies start to be a larger proportion of their weight.
My son was 98th %ile for weight and was in his infant carrier to 15 months or more. 10 months is way too early.
Hugo a Gogo said:
legality aside, I reckon rear-facing, front-facing, back, front whatever makes less difference than just being in a Defender in the first place
If the OP wants to carry an infant in 30 year old defender I suspect in a impact it will make little difference in such an old car.I wouldn't use it to transport an infant end of! If the OPs enjoyment if his classic is more important than the life of his infant then thats their issue!
Red Devil said:
Hard-Drive said:
With regards to safety, just to put into perspective, the Defender is not an everyday car, and the trip was a short distance one off.
The stats are not on your side. A report by UK insurer Elephant claims that two thirds of crashes occur within 5 miles of home.I was always led to believe (from safety training to sell child seats) that baby seats are rear facing so in the event of an accident the baby / young childs body will be forced into the seat and cusioned rather than being forced against the belts.
The reason being that at such a young age the belts will be fair stronger than the childs body and the thrust of the impact on the belts would do considerable damage, (possibly life threating)to the childs rib cage and internal organs.
Not using rearward facing child seats in the front with a passenger airbag is because the exploding airbag will tip the seat backwards and have the same effect as having the child in a forward facing seat.
The reason being that at such a young age the belts will be fair stronger than the childs body and the thrust of the impact on the belts would do considerable damage, (possibly life threating)to the childs rib cage and internal organs.
Not using rearward facing child seats in the front with a passenger airbag is because the exploding airbag will tip the seat backwards and have the same effect as having the child in a forward facing seat.
ncbbmw said:
I was always led to believe (from safety training to sell child seats) that baby seats are rear facing so in the event of an accident the baby / young childs body will be forced into the seat and cusioned rather than being forced against the belts.
The reason being that at such a young age the belts will be fair stronger than the childs body and the thrust of the impact on the belts would do considerable damage, (possibly life threating)to the childs rib cage and internal organs.
It's the forces on the neck and spine that do the most serious damage. The straps keep the body from moving too much but the head is not restrained. In a young child, the head is up to 25% of total body weight, supported on tiny little neck and shoulder muscles, and an undeveloped spine. I posted a link to a video earlier. You can see what happens when the head shoots forward in a crash. I find it excruciating to watch.The reason being that at such a young age the belts will be fair stronger than the childs body and the thrust of the impact on the belts would do considerable damage, (possibly life threating)to the childs rib cage and internal organs.
Both my kids went forward facing at about 11 months. In the ML I can only just fit the pebble and maxi cosy base behind me and also they got to the age they didn't enjoy facing backwards. My eldest also had motion sickness quite a lot and forward facing fixed that.
They enjoy forward facing in my Defender as you can see so much more and they like the noise. Also it is a surefire way to send them to sleep when they are teething or having growing pains.
We've done long drives of several hours and short trips and they love it.
This was in the passenger seat though, I'd never put them in the centre seat as the gearstick is too close in an accident.
Oddly, its my front Defender seat where his car seat is more sturdy, even the seatbelts do a better job than Isofix.
Fit the seat properly, fit the harnesses properly and there should be no problem at all.
Dave!
They enjoy forward facing in my Defender as you can see so much more and they like the noise. Also it is a surefire way to send them to sleep when they are teething or having growing pains.
We've done long drives of several hours and short trips and they love it.
This was in the passenger seat though, I'd never put them in the centre seat as the gearstick is too close in an accident.
Oddly, its my front Defender seat where his car seat is more sturdy, even the seatbelts do a better job than Isofix.
Fit the seat properly, fit the harnesses properly and there should be no problem at all.
Dave!
IIRC the deaths/paralysis show similarities to how hanging kills and also the deaths in motor racing before the Hans device.
Made me even more careful on how to fit seats for my daughter - problem being her height made it very hard to keep her rear facing for as long as I would have wanted. She's 5+ now
Made me even more careful on how to fit seats for my daughter - problem being her height made it very hard to keep her rear facing for as long as I would have wanted. She's 5+ now
Grunt Futtock said:
In the Scandinavian countries they remain rear-facing until at least 4 years old and 25kg for safety reasons, I intend to keep my little one rear-facing for as long as possible.
rubbish, don't see how that is physically possible. my little one is 2 1/2 and just under 1m tall, where would her legs go in a rear facing seat ? reclined back with feet touching roof ?
colinjy said:
rubbish, don't see how that is physically possible.
my little one is 2 1/2 and just under 1m tall, where would her legs go in a rear facing seat ? reclined back with feet touching roof ?
Rubbish. my little one is 2 1/2 and just under 1m tall, where would her legs go in a rear facing seat ? reclined back with feet touching roof ?
http://csftl.org/rear-facing-car-seat-myths-busted...
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