Child seat legality...
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Yep, they look really comfortable with their feet up near the head rest.What about accidents where the car (with rear-facing seats) is rear ended?
FWIW my daughter is in a rear facing seat (3 months)
My son is in front facing (20 months) and has been since he outgrew the rear facing seat.
The animated clip of a front facing seat in an accident looks a little unrealistic,
And this list of "myths exploded" is no such thing, it's an argument with no logic or reason.
Child is too big - no it isn't
Child doesn't like rear facing - yes it does
Child is black - no, child is white
My son is in front facing (20 months) and has been since he outgrew the rear facing seat.
The animated clip of a front facing seat in an accident looks a little unrealistic,
And this list of "myths exploded" is no such thing, it's an argument with no logic or reason.
Child is too big - no it isn't
Child doesn't like rear facing - yes it does
Child is black - no, child is white
Red Devil said:
Hard-Drive said:
With regards to safety, just to put into perspective, the Defender is not an everyday car, and the trip was a short distance one off.
The stats are not on your side. A report by UK insurer Elephant claims that two thirds of crashes occur within 5 miles of home.What if I told you that 80% of journeys are made within 5 miles of home?
Hackney said:
Yep, they look really comfortable with their feet up near the head rest.
What about accidents where the car (with rear-facing seats) is rear ended?
Physically possible though isn't it.What about accidents where the car (with rear-facing seats) is rear ended?
As it goes on in the article, kids have a different sense of comfort to adults. That's not to say all kids are the same, but to say it's impossible to have a 2-4yr old rear facing isn't correct.
Evanivitch said:
Thank you I rest my case fesuvious said:
So, I have my 20 month old in a recaro front facing seat. It is very securely fitted on the front seat of my Evora.
Should the airbag be off, or on?
She absolutely loves being sat in the front.
Personal choice on that one - depends if your child makes a habit of leaning forward in their seat into the area an airbag might deploy into, and how much empty space you've got between it and the child seat.Should the airbag be off, or on?
She absolutely loves being sat in the front.
If you've got the passenger seat set as far back as it will go and you have a switch to disable the passenger airbag, I would. There's limited circumstances in which a front passenger airbag offers additional protection - the typical occupant is sat a decent distance from the dashboard, and that's the only thing you could potentially hit during a frontal accident. Front airbags are there to deal with the steering wheel and column - they can do pretty nasty things to the driver, so the airbag is a decent solution there.
surveyor_101 said:
If the OP wants to carry an infant in 30 year old defender I suspect in a impact it will make little difference in such an old car.
I wouldn't use it to transport an infant end of! If the OPs enjoyment if his classic is more important than the life of his infant then thats their issue!
With all due respect, that's a totally ridiculous post which shows you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about.I wouldn't use it to transport an infant end of! If the OPs enjoyment if his classic is more important than the life of his infant then thats their issue!
My Defender dates from 1986. My best friend's dates from 2015. They are almost identical under the skin. A new Defender doesn't have airbags, side impact systems, seatbelt pre-tensioners or any of the stuff that you might expect to find on a modern design of car. A new Defender may have ABS but I think I can manange to drive a 2 ton car around without locking the wheels up every time I brake thank you. Granted one of the reasons JLR killed the Defender was because it could not match modern safety standards, however I do tend to feel quite safe in that vehicle thanks.
So, before you start telling me that my Defender is more important to me than the life of my child, perhaps do a bit of research before offering your "advice"...unless you offer it every time you see a child in a Defender! And if I, as a careful 40 something driver, want to make a risk assessment and decide that a few miles in a brand new seat facing forwards in a 2 ton car is probably worth the risk so that I can get somewhere my BMW won't, and spend a day of quality time out in the countryside with my son, then that's my decision and I'll live with the consequences if it all goes wrong. And, as I said, I'm mid-project changing the seating arrangement anyway so he can be rear facing but I won't bore you with the details as it might be a little lost on you.
Hard-Drive said:
With all due respect, that's a totally ridiculous post which shows you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about.
My Defender dates from 1986. My best friend's dates from 2015. They are almost identical under the skin. A new Defender doesn't have airbags, side impact systems, seatbelt pre-tensioners or any of the stuff that you might expect to find on a modern design of car. A new Defender may have ABS but I think I can manange to drive a 2 ton car around without locking the wheels up every time I brake thank you. Granted one of the reasons JLR killed the Defender was because it could not match modern safety standards, however I do tend to feel quite safe in that vehicle thanks.
So, before you start telling me that my Defender is more important to me than the life of my child, perhaps do a bit of research before offering your "advice"...unless you offer it every time you see a child in a Defender! And if I, as a careful 40 something driver, want to make a risk assessment and decide that a few miles in a brand new seat facing forwards in a 2 ton car is probably worth the risk so that I can get somewhere my BMW won't, and spend a day of quality time out in the countryside with my son, then that's my decision and I'll live with the consequences if it all goes wrong. And, as I said, I'm mid-project changing the seating arrangement anyway so he can be rear facing but I won't bore you with the details as it might be a little lost on you.
Normally I'd completely agree with a post like yours. You are an adult and should be allowed to make choices as you see fit. But the point in bold would stop me putting my daughter in such a vehicle in anything other than an emergency. I've had people tell me she (aged 3) would be fine in my Z4 but there's no way I'm going to test it out.My Defender dates from 1986. My best friend's dates from 2015. They are almost identical under the skin. A new Defender doesn't have airbags, side impact systems, seatbelt pre-tensioners or any of the stuff that you might expect to find on a modern design of car. A new Defender may have ABS but I think I can manange to drive a 2 ton car around without locking the wheels up every time I brake thank you. Granted one of the reasons JLR killed the Defender was because it could not match modern safety standards, however I do tend to feel quite safe in that vehicle thanks.
So, before you start telling me that my Defender is more important to me than the life of my child, perhaps do a bit of research before offering your "advice"...unless you offer it every time you see a child in a Defender! And if I, as a careful 40 something driver, want to make a risk assessment and decide that a few miles in a brand new seat facing forwards in a 2 ton car is probably worth the risk so that I can get somewhere my BMW won't, and spend a day of quality time out in the countryside with my son, then that's my decision and I'll live with the consequences if it all goes wrong. And, as I said, I'm mid-project changing the seating arrangement anyway so he can be rear facing but I won't bore you with the details as it might be a little lost on you.
wiggy001 said:
Normally I'd completely agree with a post like yours. You are an adult and should be allowed to make choices as you see fit. But the point in bold would stop me putting my daughter in such a vehicle in anything other than an emergency. I've had people tell me she (aged 3) would be fine in my Z4 but there's no way I'm going to test it out.
So really, you would not put a child in any of these?
If that's the case I'm genuinely surprised. It's all about sensible risk management surely, and if I was at the point that I wouldn't take a child out in a Defender, I'd probably never let him out on his bike, or take him sailing, or go anywhere near a horse, or on holiday to somewhere like Morocco where we just got back from yesterday. Perhaps as a child of the early 70s myself I'm just stuck in the dark ages and he needs a 1.2 turbo Eurobox, an iPad and Center Parcs...
Hugo a Gogo said:
point is, those Defenders, as butch as they look, are objectively far less safe than almost any other modern car in a crash
discussing which is the safest child seat to use in them is somewhat pointless
the safer option would be any child seat in any other modern car
OK, sorry, I thought this was PH not mumsnet. discussing which is the safest child seat to use in them is somewhat pointless
the safer option would be any child seat in any other modern car
So asking which lifejacket is best to take my little one sailing is pointless, as he'd be far safer behind glass on a London riverboat. Also pointless asking which kid's bike trailer is best, as he'd be safer in the car or in front of the TV.
Well, I hope despite my bad parenting he grows up to have a happy and fulfilling life, and also has the ability to RTFQ which was "is it legal to fit a child seat in the front seat of a car" not "which child seat is safest".
Again, you miss my point, it was around putting the child seat in the front seat of a vehicle if it has rear seats fitted, not so much the direction of travel of the child seat. Anyway, I am perfectly calm thanks, although facepalming slightly at those who seem to think putting a kid in a Defender is some kind of child neglect 
Anyway, currently awaiting delivery of £800 worth of new seating for the Defender, which will mean he can be backward facing, forward facing, front seat, back seat, whatever.
Anyway, currently awaiting delivery of £800 worth of new seating for the Defender, which will mean he can be backward facing, forward facing, front seat, back seat, whatever.
I wonder how much the increased risk of forward facing vs rear facing compares to other risks our children take everyday?
I put my two older children in a forward facing seats from about the age of 12 months. Now apparantly this is reckless and I will be putting my baby in danger if I do the same with him at a similar age.
In 5 years time the same rear facing seats that are advised now wil be the height of danger and we will be told that if we don't fit a completely new type of seat we will be negligent.
It's a bit like the washing powder adverts where they show the comparison between the latest powder and the previous one. Low and behold the previous version doesn't get your whites really white, for that you need their new formulation. However you just know that in a few years time when they have a new forumation, the old one won't really get your whites really white.
The difference is that this plays on the heart strings of safety.
I wonder how much difference the car seats makes compared to buying a new car that has better driver safety aids and better crash protection? Or how much of an improvement rear facing v/s forward facing gives compared to forward facing vs no child seats.
As a parent you are bombarded with information about what you need to do to keep your child safe. Everything from the temperature of the room they are sleeping in to the maximum number of hours they should be in a baby carrier for. It's never ending and to comply with all of it would cost a small fortune, pretty much ensure that you never got any sleep ever again and in the event that the worst did happen make you feel like you were 100% to blame.
As for whether I replace my Maxicosi stage 2 seat with a rear facing one, stick with what we did for the first two or try to keep him in the baby carrier for longer I don't know. The jury is still out at the moment.
I put my two older children in a forward facing seats from about the age of 12 months. Now apparantly this is reckless and I will be putting my baby in danger if I do the same with him at a similar age.
In 5 years time the same rear facing seats that are advised now wil be the height of danger and we will be told that if we don't fit a completely new type of seat we will be negligent.
It's a bit like the washing powder adverts where they show the comparison between the latest powder and the previous one. Low and behold the previous version doesn't get your whites really white, for that you need their new formulation. However you just know that in a few years time when they have a new forumation, the old one won't really get your whites really white.
The difference is that this plays on the heart strings of safety.
I wonder how much difference the car seats makes compared to buying a new car that has better driver safety aids and better crash protection? Or how much of an improvement rear facing v/s forward facing gives compared to forward facing vs no child seats.
As a parent you are bombarded with information about what you need to do to keep your child safe. Everything from the temperature of the room they are sleeping in to the maximum number of hours they should be in a baby carrier for. It's never ending and to comply with all of it would cost a small fortune, pretty much ensure that you never got any sleep ever again and in the event that the worst did happen make you feel like you were 100% to blame.
As for whether I replace my Maxicosi stage 2 seat with a rear facing one, stick with what we did for the first two or try to keep him in the baby carrier for longer I don't know. The jury is still out at the moment.
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