Avon and Somerset Police using redlight camera for speeding

[4rephill]

Pete317 said:

.......At least visible cameras give those who make such mistakes a fighting chance to rectify their error before it ends up costing them......

Shouldn't the visible speed limit signs "give those who make such mistakes a fighting chance to rectify their error before it ends up costing them......"?

The red light/speed camera combination is not really there to catch drivers who accidentally make "mistakes" with their speed, they're set up to catch those drivers who decide to deliberately put their foot down when the light goes to amber in order to try to "beat" the red light.

When it comes to drivers who speed up to race through amber lights, and get caught driving through red lights: Tough st! - Amber means stop, not: "put your foot down and take a chance!"

[surveyor_101]

Here are the pictures

[drf765]

37+ in a 30 through an amber light. Maybe speeding isn't the most suitable or only offence to prosecute.

[surveyor_101]

4rephill said:

Shouldn't the visible speed limit signs "give those who make such mistakes a fighting chance to rectify their error before it ends up costing them......"?

The red light/speed camera combination is not really there to catch drivers who accidentally make "mistakes" with their speed, they're set up to catch those drivers who decide to deliberately put their foot down when the light goes to amber in order to try to "beat" the red light.

When it comes to drivers who speed up to race through amber lights, and get caught driving through red lights: Tough st! - Amber means stop, not: "put your foot down and take a chance!"

Bare in mind, you come on a two lane 40mph, no speed camera signs. You then just 80 yards prior to the camera the limit signs on the left could be hidden behind a van, on the right is partially obscured by a hedge! Its not the best signed posted limit>

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.0178138,-3.08848...

[surveyor_101]

drf765 said:

37+ in a 30 through an amber light. Maybe speeding isn't the most suitable or only offence to prosecute.

Amber is be prepare to stop and the junction is empty in the photo, it would have changed after the driver was committed, so again comes down to speed.

There is no redlight offence, I suspect you have never passed an amber light in your driving career.

driver was trying to avoid getting stuck at the lights as taunton has the worst phased and placed traffic lights in the country! His wife had got locked out after their two year old had shut the door behind her! So can imagine he was speeding because of that.

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 4th November 13:42

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 4th November 13:43

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 4th November 13:56

[singlecoil]

surveyor_101 said:

Amber is be prepare to stop and the junction is empty in the photo, it would of changed after the driver was committed, so again comes down to speed.

Would HAVE changed.

HTH

[Countdown]

surveyor_101 said:

Amber is be prepare to stop and the junction is empty in the photo, it would have changed after the driver was committed, so again comes down to speed.
]

I thought Amber was "stop unless to do so would cause an accident "?

[_dobbo_]

So clarify.

The driver went through at 37mph
The camera was known to the driver
The limit was known to the driver.

I know that junction well. You're heading into a residential area with lots of foot traffic.

I think you're struggling to make your point clear OP? What exactly is the problem?

[RobinOakapple]

_dobbo_ said:

I think you're struggling to make your point clear OP? What exactly is the problem?

He probably thinks the police 'should of' made the speed camera more obvious.

[Gavia]

surveyor_101 said:

Amber is be prepare to stop and the junction is empty in the photo, it would have changed after the driver was committed, so again comes down to speed.

There is no redlight offence, I suspect you have never passed an amber light in your driving career.

driver was trying to avoid getting stuck at the lights as taunton has the worst phased and placed traffic lights in the country! His wife had got locked out after their two year old had shut the door behind her! So can imagine he was speeding because of that.

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 4th November 13:42

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 4th November 13:43

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 4th November 13:56

Even after multiple edits you've still left your comment about what an amber light means in there.

Have a read of this

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light...

My money is on the driver seeing a green light for a while and getting his foot down to get through it on amber.

[surveyor_101]

Gavia said:

Even after multiple edits you've still left your comment about what an amber light means in there.

Have a read of this

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light...

My money is on the driver seeing a green light for a while and getting his foot down to get through it on amber.

Driver did have his foot down he was in a 40 moment before, as for the comment of foot traffic. Its 4 lanes and has many crossing people don't tend to brave it without using the crossings.

I noted yesterday that on the side of the road the vehicle was caught the check marks are no consistant and some lines are missing. Is this any grounds to challenge or should he apply for the speed awareness as they wont tell me if he is entitled without applying.

[Gavia]

surveyor_101 said:

Driver did have his foot down he was in a 40 moment before, as for the comment of foot traffic. Its 4 lanes and has many crossing people don't tend to brave it without using the crossings.

I noted yesterday that on the side of the road the vehicle was caught the check marks are no consistant and some lines are missing. Is this any grounds to challenge or should he apply for the speed awareness as they wont tell me if he is entitled without applying.

No chance on the technicality.

You don't apply for a Speed Awareness Course, one might be offered if the driver qualifies based on driving history, current points and speed he was travelling at.

[surveyor_101]

Gavia said:

No chance on the technicality.

You don't apply for a Speed Awareness Course, one might be offered if the driver qualifies based on driving history, current points and speed he was travelling at.

You do in avon and somerset the ticket came to my firm, (and it offered the firm speed awarness!)

Speed awareness is on the notice to driver but he last was caught in Oct 2013 (course was nov 13) and can't remember if it was before the 18th October. When he called and asked they said you will have to apply and we will let him no if he can take the option. I expect they are keen as they charge one of the highest fees in the country think its like £95-105? Remember they got some stick when they put it up!

[TooMany2cvs]

surveyor_101 said:

I noted yesterday that on the side of the road the vehicle was caught the check marks are no consistant and some lines are missing. Is this any grounds to challenge or should he apply for the speed awareness as they wont tell me if he is entitled without applying.

He doesn't "apply" for an SAC. He needs to admit he was driving, then he'll be told if he's being offered an SAC, offered a £100/3pt FPN, or if he's just going straight to court - which is really only likely here if he's already on 9pts or more, or 3pts and <2yrs. Both the SAC and FPN require him to agree that he was indeed guilty.

If he wants to try any kind of "not guilty", then he's going to be doing the arguing in front of a magistrate. The logic of whether the limit there is 30mph will not come into it, nor will arguments about enforcement. If he's going to try any kind of technical argument, he needs to be VERY sure of exactly why the calculated speed is wrong.

[herewego]

surveyor_101 said:

Gavia said:

Even after multiple edits you've still left your comment about what an amber light means in there.

Have a read of this

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/light...

My money is on the driver seeing a green light for a while and getting his foot down to get through it on amber.

Driver did have his foot down he was in a 40 moment before, as for the comment of foot traffic. Its 4 lanes and has many crossing people don't tend to brave it without using the crossings.

I noted yesterday that on the side of the road the vehicle was caught the check marks are no consistant and some lines are missing. Is this any grounds to challenge or should he apply for the speed awareness as they wont tell me if he is entitled without applying.

They don't actually need check marks to prosecute although if you can see them in the photos you can use them to check yourself to check the alleged speed.

[_dobbo_]

surveyor_101 said:

Driver did have his foot down he was in a 40 moment before, as for the comment of foot traffic. Its 4 lanes and has many crossing people don't tend to brave it without using the crossings.

Oh well in that case it's fine to be booting it accelerating into a 30 zone at nearly 40 miles an hour, because "people don't tend to brave it". The guy shouldn't be getting a speeding ticket he should be getting a medal.

[surveyor_101]

_dobbo_ said:

Oh well in that case it's fine to be booting it accelerating into a 30 zone at nearly 40 miles an hour, because "people don't tend to brave it". The guy shouldn't be getting a speeding ticket he should be getting a medal.

He carried the 37 from the 40 limit the other side of the camera, he didn't 'boot it' as you suggest also you will see he is braking down to 30 as he enters the built up area.

[_dobbo_]

surveyor_101 said:

He carried the 37 from the 40 limit the other side of the camera, he didn't 'boot it' as you suggest also you will see he is braking down to 30 as he enters the built up area.

FFS you don't give up do you.

I didn't say he booted it - you did. See - here:

surveyor_101 said:

Driver did have his foot down he was in a 40 moment before

See how you've said the driver had his foot down?

So he's got his foot down but he's braking but he knew the limit and the camera but he sped anyway but his kid was locked out but the signs were obscured but the hedges but the camera but but but but but WHAT ON EARTH is the point you are trying to make?!

[TooMany2cvs]

surveyor_101 said:

He carried the 37 from the 40 limit the other side of the camera, he didn't 'boot it' as you suggest also you will see he is braking down to 30 as he enters the built up area.

So he's braking as he goes through the amber light, having travelled over 100m from the 30 sign, and was STILL doing 37 average over the distance the three photos cover?

What speed was he doing through the 40, then?

[surveyor_101]

_dobbo_ said:

See how you've said the driver had his foot down?

So he's got his foot down but he's braking but he knew the limit and the camera but he sped anyway but his kid was locked out but the signs were obscured but the hedges but the camera but but but but but WHAT ON EARTH is the point you are trying to make?!

Point is they got him even without the proper signage in place. He could of been (and many others) prevented from speeding had the published accurate information on their website. Hiding the purpose of a speed camera seems to me to have no tangible benefit to road safety.


Clearly the drivers complaint to the police has worked as they have altered their website and now list this as a speed camera and 0 red light cameras.

Like I said if the name of of the game was safety rather than revenue!

Driver has learnt his lesson and opted for speed awareness (brain washing) coffee and biscuits at the Holiday Inn, for the princely sum of £105 more than the FNP! Again other forces do it for £50-60 but avon and somerset need to cover their inaccurate website operating costs!

This is delivered by a registrar who knows nothing about road safety or driving, but if you need a death or marriage cert she is your girl.

Thank you, good night much love.