PCN Half printed

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Discussion

Chrismawa

Original Poster:

553 posts

100 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Got back to my car and found i have a PCN from the council. But its only half printed and they have the colour of my car wrong. Anyone any idea if i have a chance of getting it cancelled if i challenge it? Ill post a pic of it soon. Thanks.

Chrismawa

Original Poster:

553 posts

100 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Text cut off half way. It should go all the way to the bottom box.


elanfan

5,520 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Unless they've got your reg no. wrong then I doubt you can legitimately get away with it. That said you cannot make out the period you were observed for or your options for early settlement so maybe that's something. I'd suggest it's worth a polite letter to the issuing authority pointing out the deficiencies ask as politely as you can muster that it be withdrawn as its most probably invalid and should not have been placed on your car as its clearly incomplete. Reckon that's your best bet.

Gavia

7,627 posts

91 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
elanfan said:
Unless they've got your reg no. wrong then I doubt you can legitimately get away with it. That said you cannot make out the period you were observed for or your options for early settlement so maybe that's something. I'd suggest it's worth a polite letter to the issuing authority pointing out the deficiencies ask as politely as you can muster that it be withdrawn as its most probably invalid and should not have been placed on your car as its clearly incomplete. Reckon that's your best bet.
He was parked on Lane Road, South Shields in a residents or shared use parking place without clearly displaying a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket from 17:19 to 17:20 on 25/10/2016.

Not sure about the missing info, but what's there is pretty clear.

Mill Wheel

6,149 posts

196 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
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Seems clear to me... the penalty charge must be paid by the last day of the....

You clearly have until the last day of the to pay it!

How wrong was the colour??

timbo999

1,293 posts

255 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
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Mill Wheel said:
How wrong was the colour??
Not very... its grey not black...

elanfan

5,520 posts

227 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?

rscott

14,752 posts

191 months

Tuesday 25th October 2016
quotequote all
Mill Wheel said:
Seems clear to me... the penalty charge must be paid by the last day of the....

You clearly have until the last day of the to pay it!

How wrong was the colour??
Colour doesn't matter, but pretty sure the lack of payment timescales is a fatal flaw. I'd post it over on pepipoo and see what they think.

Red Devil

13,060 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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elanfan said:
I'd suggest it's worth a polite letter to the issuing authority pointing out the deficiencies ask as politely as you can muster that it be withdrawn as its most probably invalid and should not have been placed on your car as its clearly incomplete. Reckon that's your best bet.
+1

The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 Schedule 1 prescribes what must appear on a PCN - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/3483/sched...
Section 1(g) is incomplete and all of (h),(i), and (j) appear to be missing altogether. Invite them to cancel on the grounds that it is defective* - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/parking-t...

 * Don't tell them specifically in what way at this stage, just say that it is defective: i.e. non-compliant with the Regs (quote the full title). Let them work it out for themselves what's wrong.

I reckon a TPT adjudicator would throw it out if push came to shove. It's a shame that TPT doesn't have a register of previous decisions which can be searched like that for London Tribunals (ex-PATAS).

elanfan

5,520 posts

227 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?

Chrismawa

Original Poster:

553 posts

100 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
quotequote all
Many thanks for the help guys. I will construct a letter and hope for the best!

55palfers

5,908 posts

164 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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We get penalised for every tiny oversight / minor contravention so when the boot is on the other foot....

HantsRat

2,369 posts

108 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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elanfan said:
I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?
There is no such thing as observation period.

amancalledrob

1,248 posts

134 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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HantsRat said:
elanfan said:
I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?
There is no such thing as observation period.
I thought it was the period during which the car had been observed? Do we need to start calling that period something else?

herewego

8,814 posts

213 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
quotequote all
elanfan said:
I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?
Some authorities wait 5 minutes before issuing a ticket and if they state as such e.g. on their parking website then they will cancel the ticket on appeal. I don't think this is common though. Pickles said he wanted there to be a mandatory 15 mins but I think it would cause chaos in some places and it wasn't adopted.


Edited by herewego on Wednesday 26th October 10:03

S11Steve

6,374 posts

184 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
elanfan said:
I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?
There is no such thing as observation period.
That may be for local authority car parks, P&D types etc. Regulations were amended last October to give a 10 minute grace period in certain circumstances, but I don't believe that permit areas were included in that.


Red Devil

13,060 posts

208 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
elanfan said:
I may be wrong but isn't observation period meant to be 5 minutes minimum?
There is no such thing as observation period.
Oh, really? I can only assume you're unfamiliar with Civil Enforcement protocols.
Google Civil Parking Enforcement Annual Report 2014/15 South Tyneside Council. Click on the link to the .pdf file and go to page 12.


@ elanfan. It depends on the contravention. Some don't have one. It would appear that South Tyneside Council do not allow an observation period for Code 12.
Google Parking Enforcement Charter South Tyneside Council. Click on the link to the .pdf file and go to Section 7.0 on page 10.

However the Annual Report link makes clear that their machines are set up in such a way that a minimum time period must elapse in order to produce a PCN.
If you zoom in on the OP's thumbsnap image you will see that it is one minute (17.19 to 17.20).

KungFuPanda

4,332 posts

170 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
quotequote all
I'd say that's enough to get it knocked on the head. You haven't been served with a proper ticket as some of the terms are missing. I'd be up front about it and appeal it together with a copy of the defective ticket.

speedchick

5,173 posts

222 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
quotequote all
The 10 minute grace period is for parking times, ie, when parking in a P&D car park or in a limited waiting bay (eg, 1 hour parking), the hand held computers are not set to prevent issue before the time plus 10 mins as you can have varying bays in a beat.

With regard to observation times, (DYL, SYL Loading Bay, Resident Permit bays etc), it all depends on the local authority, some have 5 mins and the computers will not allow issue until the time elapses (ie if you start obs at 17:21:30 the computer will not allow issue until 17:26:30). Some authorities have no observation time at all.

And then you have the ones that are instant tickets everywhere, (bus stops, disabled badge bays and kerb markings.

Chrismawa

Original Poster:

553 posts

100 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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Good news! I got the fine paid for free using the Park My Fine app. They have daily competitions to win your fine being paid - and i managed to get lucky! Check it out here https://www.facebook.com/parkmyfine/ might be handy for others if you get a fine in future.

Thanks for your help.