Renewed driver's licence - Category question

[C70R]

So, after changing the address on my driver's licence for the first time in around a decade (or more - I know!), my replacement photocard has come back with a host of different codes. For reference, I passed my test in mid-1999.
Previous: B,B1,f,k,p
Replacement: AM/A/B1/B/f/k/p/q

"AM" is a <28mph moped/scooter, which makes sense. However, "A" is listed on the DVLA/gov website as "motorbikes with a power output more than 35kW or a power to weight ratio more than 0.2kW/kg".
Surely this must be some sort of mistake?

[TooMany2cvs]

C70R said:

So, after changing the address on my driver's licence for the first time in around a decade (or more - I know!), my replacement photocard has come back with a host of different codes. For reference, I passed my test in mid-1999.
Previous: B,B1,f,k,p
Replacement: AM/A/B1/B/f/k/p/q

"AM" is a <28mph moped/scooter, which makes sense. However, "A" is listed on the DVLA/gov website as "motorbikes with a power output more than 35kW or a power to weight ratio more than 0.2kW/kg".
Surely this must be some sort of mistake?

Does it say "(79,3)", "(79,tri)" or similar at the end?

[C70R]

TooMany2cvs said:

C70R said:

So, after changing the address on my driver's licence for the first time in around a decade (or more - I know!), my replacement photocard has come back with a host of different codes. For reference, I passed my test in mid-1999.
Previous: B,B1,f,k,p
Replacement: AM/A/B1/B/f/k/p/q

"AM" is a <28mph moped/scooter, which makes sense. However, "A" is listed on the DVLA/gov website as "motorbikes with a power output more than 35kW or a power to weight ratio more than 0.2kW/kg".
Surely this must be some sort of mistake?

Does it say "(79,3)", "(79,tri)" or similar at the end?

Nothing at all.

[Red Devil]

Look upon it as a Brucie bonus.

It's nothing new btw. The problems really begin when the DVLA take them away.
http://whatconsumer.co.uk/forum/consumer-rights-te...

[C70R]

Interestingly, when searching for the list of codes in parentheses I found someone on an M3 forum with exactly the same issue. He suggested that his paper counterpart showed this only as a "Provisional Entitlement" (as does mine, upon inspection), and that his photocard the result of an admin error from the DVLA.

Not that I would (no real burning desire to do so), but what would be the ramifications of using a motorbike with this licence entitlement, do we think?

[TooMany2cvs]

C70R said:

Interestingly, when searching for the list of codes in parentheses I found someone on an M3 forum with exactly the same issue. He suggested that his paper counterpart showed this only as a "Provisional Entitlement" (as does mine, upon inspection), and that his photocard the result of an admin error from the DVLA.

Worth checking on https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

C70R said:

Not that I would (no real burning desire to do so), but what would be the ramifications of using a motorbike with this licence entitlement, do we think?

LC20, 3-6pts.

[Toltec]

Isn't that an age based learner restriction? You can ride something larger than a 12bhp 125cc, but not a full sports bike.

Edit. No that would be A2. Does it list A on the back with a date

Edited by Toltec on Wednesday 26th October 15:04

[C70R]

TooMany2cvs said:

Worth checking on https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

And there's the winning answer - I had no idea the service even existed. How unnecessarily confusing!
The link shows: 79(3) Restricted to tricycles.

Thanks for all your help. Problem solved. Now, off to browse 3-wheeled Morgans...

[TooMany2cvs]

C70R said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Worth checking on https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence

And there's the winning answer - I had no idea the service even existed. How unnecessarily confusing!
The link shows: 79(3) Restricted to tricycles.

Thanks for all your help. Problem solved. Now, off to browse 3-wheeled Morgans...

You've always been able to drive them - it's just that they used to be covered by the car bit.

[Slidingpillar]

TooMany2cvs said:

Does it say "(79,3)", "(79,tri)" or similar at the end?

Because it should! While in the UK, we've adopted the derogation from the EU 3rd Directive on driving licences, so you can drive a trike if you are 21 or older, the right should be grandfathered for anyone with a category B pass before 19th January 2013. And since the licence should be an exportable document to anywhere in EU, the licence needs to show it.

All because some prat in the EU thinks this



is one of these



In unmodified form of the directive, any new driver would need to pass a full bike licence (and thus be 21 or older) to drive my 1930 Morgan with a steering wheel and car controls.

Edited by Slidingpillar on Wednesday 26th October 15:25

[Red Devil]

C70R said:

Interestingly, when searching for the list of codes in parentheses I found someone on an M3 forum with exactly the same issue. He suggested that his paper counterpart showed this only as a "Provisional Entitlement" (as does mine, upon inspection), and that his photocard the result of an admin error from the DVLA.

Given the counterpart was abolished over 15 months ago and no longer has any legal significance that's somewhat academic.

TooMany2cvs said:

C70R said:

Not that I would (no real burning desire to do so), but what would be the ramifications of using a motorbike with this licence entitlement, do we think?

LC20, 3-6pts.

How do you work that one out, given that LC20 is: Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence? The one is his possession clearly states he has that entitlement. How would it come to light that the DVLA has cocked up its records from which the licence has been issued?

[C70R]

Red Devil said:

Given the counterpart was abolished over 15 months ago and no longer has any legal significance that's somewhat academic.

Funnily enough the M3 forum thread was a little over two years old. No idea that the paper counterpart was abolished - presume I just tear up the remaining flaky bits and dispose of it?

[TooMany2cvs]

Red Devil said:

TooMany2cvs said:

C70R said:

Not that I would (no real burning desire to do so), but what would be the ramifications of using a motorbike with this licence entitlement, do we think?

LC20, 3-6pts.

How do you work that one out, given that LC20 is: Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence? The one is his possession clearly states he has that entitlement. How would it come to light that the DVLA has cocked up its records from which the licence has been issued?

Because, unsurprisingly, he doesn't.

[KevinCamaroSS]

C70R said:

Funnily enough the M3 forum thread was a little over two years old. No idea that the paper counterpart was abolished - presume I just tear up the remaining flaky bits and dispose of it?

No, the photocard is different with the new licences. Yours will still show as having a paper counterpart.

[Cat]

KevinCamaroSS said:

No, the photocard is different with the new licences. Yours will still show as having a paper counterpart.

No it won't. The paper counterpart is no longer a part of the licence and can be disposed of if you want to. Prior to the change if you had a photocard your licence was the card and the paper counterpart. Now your licence is just the photocard.

N.B. Do not confuse pre-photocard paper licences with the paper counterpart. The former are still valid and should not be thrown away.

Cat

[Red Devil]

TooMany2cvs said:

Red Devil said:

TooMany2cvs said:

C70R said:

Not that I would (no real burning desire to do so), but what would be the ramifications of using a motorbike with this licence entitlement, do we think?

LC20, 3-6pts.

How do you work that one out, given that LC20 is: Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence? The one is his possession clearly states he has that entitlement. How would it come to light that the DVLA has cocked up its records from which the licence has been issued?

Because, unsurprisingly, he doesn't.

Well done for not answering the question.

I'll try again. If the licence is issued due to a defective DVLA record how would a police officer discover that the offence was being committed? No prosecution, no code to be entered on the DVLA record.

The critical path is how the data gets from the computer file to the physical medium. Surely it can't be a manual exercise with an army of clerks copying stuff by hand? If not, then the human error is earlier in the chain: i.e. in the data file itself which is presumably what would be looked up via the PNC.

Cat said:

N.B. Do not confuse pre-photocard paper licences with the paper counterpart. The former are still valid and should not be thrown away.

I was quite attached to my green one. Then I moved house...

Downsizing: the kids having flown the nest.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Cat said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

No, the photocard is different with the new licences. Yours will still show as having a paper counterpart.

No it won't. The paper counterpart is no longer a part of the licence and can be disposed of if you want to. Prior to the change if you had a photocard your licence was the card and the paper counterpart. Now your licence is just the photocard.

N.B. Do not confuse pre-photocard paper licences with the paper counterpart. The former are still valid and should not be thrown away.

Cat

I stand corrected, thanks Cat

[alangla]

Slidingpillar said:

In unmodified form of the directive, any new driver would need to pass a full bike licence (and thus be 21 or older) to drive my 1930 Morgan with a steering wheel and car controls.

Worse than that - it's 24 now & you're not allowed to do a driving test on a tricycle unless you're registered disabled. This means there's no way to get a licence specifically to drive a Morgan/Reliant/Invacar, you need to either pass a motorcycle test on a big bike or go through the years of progression from smaller categories of 2 wheelers if you're under 24.

https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/licences-...

Stupid implementation of a silly law. Was it really that much of an issue having the occasional person riding a Goldwing/Boom/Harley trike on a B1 licence? I've had a passenger ride on a Boom & apart from the absence of bodywork, they're basically cars - Ford Duratec engine, clutch, brake & gearbox where you'd expect. The only thing that's "bike" about them is the steering and the hand throttle.
The only, slight, explanation I can think of for this rule is that some people were perhaps riding wider track Piaggio MP3s on a B1 licence instead of an A - the narrower ones are definitely classed as motorcycles. If this is what drove it, it's basically a change in the law for one vehicle, albeit one that seems popular in many European cities - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_MP3

[battered]

Red Devil said:

I was quite attached to my green one. Then I moved house...

I still have my green one registered at my parents' old address and I've since changed address I forget how many times. Yes, I know. Now that they no longer live there I ought to update it. I've been at the current place 2 years now and I don't plan to move so it's about time.

[davepoth]

alangla said:

Worse than that - it's 24 now & you're not allowed to do a driving test on a tricycle unless you're registered disabled. This means there's no way to get a licence specifically to drive a Morgan/Reliant/Invacar, you need to either pass a motorcycle test on a big bike or go through the years of progression from smaller categories of 2 wheelers if you're under 24.

https://www.gov.uk/ride-motorcycle-moped/licences-...

Stupid implementation of a silly law. Was it really that much of an issue having the occasional person riding a Goldwing/Boom/Harley trike on a B1 licence? I've had a passenger ride on a Boom & apart from the absence of bodywork, they're basically cars - Ford Duratec engine, clutch, brake & gearbox where you'd expect. The only thing that's "bike" about them is the steering and the hand throttle.
The only, slight, explanation I can think of for this rule is that some people were perhaps riding wider track Piaggio MP3s on a B1 licence instead of an A - the narrower ones are definitely classed as motorcycles. If this is what drove it, it's basically a change in the law for one vehicle, albeit one that seems popular in many European cities - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_MP3

Good job we'll be able to fix it in two and a half years I suppose.