HELP - sold a car and it was repossessed from the buyer
Discussion
motoroller said:
Butter Face said:
IANAL but I don't think you will. In the eyes of the law the debt is not yours, the car is also not yours.
Proof would have to be supplied that you took the car knowing of existing finance and promised to settle it (which I assume will not be forthcoming as you state you didn't know of the finance)
You would also have to be proven that you sold the car knowing of existing finance and duped the new buyer which also won't be forthcoming.
If I were you I would take a step back, tell the new owner they need to deal with the finance company/previous owner/police themselves as really it's not your issue. Assist when requested but don't get too involved.
This is why people should do HPI checks, still baffles me that people will hand over £0000's without doing a basic bit of £25 due dilligence!
The difficulty is the time and hassle involved in all of this - I have to prove that I didn't know, which means it'll end up as one person's word against another, which definitely ends badly for everyone. I've been a similar position with a false personal injury claim against my car insurance, somehow my idiotic insurance company (Admiral) paid out £4k for the fake injury, despite my continuous protest. It's still impacting my premiums now!Proof would have to be supplied that you took the car knowing of existing finance and promised to settle it (which I assume will not be forthcoming as you state you didn't know of the finance)
You would also have to be proven that you sold the car knowing of existing finance and duped the new buyer which also won't be forthcoming.
If I were you I would take a step back, tell the new owner they need to deal with the finance company/previous owner/police themselves as really it's not your issue. Assist when requested but don't get too involved.
This is why people should do HPI checks, still baffles me that people will hand over £0000's without doing a basic bit of £25 due dilligence!
I keep getting missed calls from the buyer at work, the time and hassle this is creating is ridiculous.
The most recent update - they've gone to the police who have advised them to file a case against me, and for me to file a case against the guy I bought it from. Apparently it works "like a chain". No one wins
rscott said:
You say you've got paperwork for the exchange of cars a year or so ago - does that mention anything at all about finance or payments? Surely if you'd been aware of the finance as the person claims, he'd have made sure to mention it on those documents.
I have a piece of paper which says both cars swapped, signed by both parties. There is no mention of finance on there (obviously).Checking my HPI report, I've only got the basic information and not the full check which includes finance checks. This worries me even more
as I posted before have you got the original hpi check you did?
the bank will/possible argue you didn't carry out the correct checks, when in reality it is the seller who has committed a criminal offence.
I would seek legal advice as it could end up you being used by your buyer if you don't nip it in the bud. a complaint with he police for the seller would be my first port of call.
You still bought it in good faith.
the bank will/possible argue you didn't carry out the correct checks, when in reality it is the seller who has committed a criminal offence.
I would seek legal advice as it could end up you being used by your buyer if you don't nip it in the bud. a complaint with he police for the seller would be my first port of call.
You still bought it in good faith.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Tuesday 15th November 11:55
OP, this isn't your issue, the more you liaise with the buyer the more you'll be drawn in. Just state your case and end communications except if you get a solicitor's letter which you'll have to respond to. It sounds like the other two parties are trying to gang up on you.
As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
eta
Also, use evidence to prove the car you swapped was equivalent market value to the car you acquired, ie you didn't get a good deal with the expectation to clear the finance.
As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
eta
Also, use evidence to prove the car you swapped was equivalent market value to the car you acquired, ie you didn't get a good deal with the expectation to clear the finance.
CaptainSlow said:
OP, this isn't your issue, the more you liaise with the buyer the more you'll be drawn in. Just state your case and end communications except if you get a solicitor's letter which you'll have to respond to. It sounds like the other two parties are trying to gang up on you.
As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
This helps actually - what do you mean if I didn't say otherwise? As long as I didn't tell the buyer then I'm fine?As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
I don't want them showing up at my house again. That would be problematic.
Butter Face said:
Does it say it doesn't have any or it doesn't mention at all?
Doesn't mention it at allI've just read the whole lot, and although I understand your concerns and worry, I don't think you've got too much to worry about.
Unless I misread this you swapped a car, registered it in your name and used it as your car for a reasonably lengthy period of time before selling it (tax and insurance will confirm this). If you 'flipped' it then I could see how you could become embroiled into it.
The original owner is trying to be a funny bugger claiming you knew. As pointed out, even if you did know it wouldn't absolve him of his responsibilities or actions. Can I confirm that the finance has always been in their name? BE aware they can't just sign finance over to you so don't be worried about that.
Try not to concern yourself with 'what ifs' but understand this isn't going to get resolved in a day or two. If I were you I'd write out a simple chain of events detailing the sequence and dates where possible. Don't write massive tomes, be concise and use bullets if it helps. This will put things into perspective and clear the murk.
Personally I'd also maintain some communications with the buyer, united front and all that (plus think how they're feeling). Ultimately they didn't do a HPI check either, and they're more likely to lose out than you.
Unless I misread this you swapped a car, registered it in your name and used it as your car for a reasonably lengthy period of time before selling it (tax and insurance will confirm this). If you 'flipped' it then I could see how you could become embroiled into it.
The original owner is trying to be a funny bugger claiming you knew. As pointed out, even if you did know it wouldn't absolve him of his responsibilities or actions. Can I confirm that the finance has always been in their name? BE aware they can't just sign finance over to you so don't be worried about that.
Try not to concern yourself with 'what ifs' but understand this isn't going to get resolved in a day or two. If I were you I'd write out a simple chain of events detailing the sequence and dates where possible. Don't write massive tomes, be concise and use bullets if it helps. This will put things into perspective and clear the murk.
Personally I'd also maintain some communications with the buyer, united front and all that (plus think how they're feeling). Ultimately they didn't do a HPI check either, and they're more likely to lose out than you.
having a read on the act, it is pretty clear the seller has no right to sell the car as they do not own it. HPI checks, etc would help your cause, but do not mean you are at fault. The seller is and has committed a criminal act selling it.
I would definitely be raising a complaint with the police first case then speaking with bank.
Even thou it isn't you issue, it would help stop and future civil claims.
I would definitely be raising a complaint with the police first case then speaking with bank.
Even thou it isn't you issue, it would help stop and future civil claims.
motoroller said:
I received a call from the finance people a while back, and I dismissed it as being some kind of cold call scam. Does that count as me knowing before selling?
Ah, the drip-drip of pertinent information.So timeline distilled...
some time previously - the previous owner took finance out against the car.
1yr ago - you obtained this car, without checking for outstanding finance.
while you owned it - you were called by the lender to tell you there was outstanding finance.
6mo ago - you sold it, mentioned nothing, and the buyer didn't check for outstanding finance.
now - it's been repossessed.
The lender will certainly have a record of having contacted you. "I thought it was a scam, so ignored it" is not going to be the greatest of responses.
What value of car are we talking about here?
KrazyIvan said:
The advice on here is all good and well and may be helpful, but for your own peace of mind you need to speak to a solicitor. The sooner you do this then the sooner your worries in the matter will be over.
As they say in the adds, "don't delay, call today".
Good luck.
Exactly (as I stated on the previous page).As they say in the adds, "don't delay, call today".
Good luck.
PH is great for advice. However, people still need to follow things up themselves. OP - get some legal advice.
CaptainSlow said:
OP, this isn't your issue, the more you liaise with the buyer the more you'll be drawn in. Just state your case and end communications except if you get a solicitor's letter which you'll have to respond to. It sounds like the other two parties are trying to gang up on you.
As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
eta
Also, use evidence to prove the car you swapped was equivalent market value to the car you acquired, ie you didn't get a good deal with the expectation to clear the finance.
On further research it appears I'm wrong, it is illegal to knowingly sell a car on finance. If you knew or not is key.As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
eta
Also, use evidence to prove the car you swapped was equivalent market value to the car you acquired, ie you didn't get a good deal with the expectation to clear the finance.
So you have two concerns, did you know when you acquired it or did you find out afterwards.
If the seller is saying he told you, you need to demonstrate the the car you swapped with was of similar value. The second point is finding out afterwards, this may be on the call from the finance company.
Edited by CaptainSlow on Tuesday 15th November 12:10
motoroller said:
I received a call from the finance people a while back, and I dismissed it as being some kind of cold call scam. Does that count as me knowing before selling?
Uh.... depends what they said to you. They may well have it recorded too, especially since they were chasing their asset.If you bought the car in good faith with no knowledge of the outstanding finance in a private sale then my understanding is that you should have obtained title to it and therefore be able to sell it on. I've no idea what the situation is if you are subsequently made aware by the finance company that there is outstanding finance on it.
I'd suggest legal advice time, do you have any legal cover under home or car insurance?
Dabooka said:
If you 'flipped' it then I could see how you could become embroiled into it.
Can I confirm that the finance has always been in their name?
Personally I'd also maintain some communications with the buyer, united front and all that (plus think how they're feeling). Ultimately they didn't do a HPI check either, and they're more likely to lose out than you.
What length of time of ownership would class as "flipping" it? I drove it to and from work for at least 2 months.Can I confirm that the finance has always been in their name?
Personally I'd also maintain some communications with the buyer, united front and all that (plus think how they're feeling). Ultimately they didn't do a HPI check either, and they're more likely to lose out than you.
The finance has always been in their name and still is. I've tried calling Barclays and can't get any information out of them "as I'm not the account holder". Why did they repossess from someone who's not the account holder?!?
I'm keeping communication with the buyer for now. But they are testing my limits with threats to call the police, giving me this idea of the need for a "chain" of police cases from them to me then from me to the original seller.
TooMany2cvs said:
Ah, the drip-drip of pertinent information.
So timeline distilled...
some time previously - the previous owner took finance out against the car.
1yr ago - you obtained this car, without checking for outstanding finance.
while you owned it - you were called by the lender to tell you there was outstanding finance.
6mo ago - you sold it, mentioned nothing, and the buyer didn't check for outstanding finance.
now - it's been repossessed.
The lender will certainly have a record of having contacted you. "I thought it was a scam, so ignored it" is not going to be the greatest of responses.
What value of car are we talking about here?
That's pretty much the timeline, give or take a couple of months. I don't have exact dates but will sort all that out when I'm back home today.So timeline distilled...
some time previously - the previous owner took finance out against the car.
1yr ago - you obtained this car, without checking for outstanding finance.
while you owned it - you were called by the lender to tell you there was outstanding finance.
6mo ago - you sold it, mentioned nothing, and the buyer didn't check for outstanding finance.
now - it's been repossessed.
The lender will certainly have a record of having contacted you. "I thought it was a scam, so ignored it" is not going to be the greatest of responses.
What value of car are we talking about here?
The value was around £12k
Is it worth me finding out how much outstanding finance is on the car? How can I do this - I tried calling Barclays and they won't tell me as I'm not the account holder.
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