HELP - sold a car and it was repossessed from the buyer

[swisstoni]

Couple of things occur to me:
How did the finance co. get the OPs number?
If they had his number, presumably they had his address - why didn't they put it in writing?
And why were they calling the OP at all? The loan was with the original scrote - he's the one who owes the money!

I personally treat all cold calls with a load of distrust. I don't think the call will stack up as evidence.

[Dixy]

OP if you genuinely acquired the car in good faith, then you have nothing to worry about. Just stand your ground and let the others sort it out. Ignore the police bit essentially this is a civil matter and they will be all too happy not to get involved. As I said before your buyer HAS clean title and should be roasting Barclays.
If you have done a dodgy deal get a solicitor and he will take first dibs on what is in your piggy bank.

[E36GUY]

Dixy said:

OP if you genuinely acquired the car in good faith, then you have nothing to worry about. Just stand your ground and let the others sort it out. Ignore the police bit essentially this is a civil matter and they will be all too happy not to get involved. As I said before your buyer HAS clean title and should be roasting Barclays.
If you have done a dodgy deal get a solicitor and he will take first dibs on what is in your piggy bank.

This. IANAL but the government legislation liked earlier seems to say that as long as the OP didn't know about the finance when he purchased (regardless of the later phonecall the contents of such we don't yet know the full extent of) his title is good and therefore so is the subsequent buyers who, as you say, should now be roasting Barclays.

[anonymous-user]

E36GUY said:

This. IANAL but the government legislation liked earlier seems to say that as long as the OP didn't know about the finance when he purchased (regardless of the later phonecall the contents of such we don't yet know the full extent of) his title is good and therefore so is the subsequent buyers who, as you say, should now be roasting Barclays.

this is the way I read it. But I am sure a legal professional could advise the op better. The seller and the bank seem to be the bad people in this tale.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Tuesday 15th November 17:10

[turbobloke]

Butter Face said:

swisstoni said:

I bid him good-day.

I don't see why you would? We do lots of stocking finance which shows on HPI and HAS to be settled when the car is released (we get audited on it)

Quite. I've bought a car that way, from what I considered to be a reputable dealer (they were), the finance was indicated up-front, they said there would be a letter from the finance house confirming in writing that they no longer had any interest in the car prior to collection - this was easier to accept as I couldn't collect the car any earlier than this would take. True to their word, there was a letter waiting with the car and my own check confirmed all was well. I drove the car home, end of story!

Hope it works out for you, OP.

[swisstoni]

turbobloke said:

Butter Face said:

swisstoni said:

I bid him good-day.

I don't see why you would? We do lots of stocking finance which shows on HPI and HAS to be settled when the car is released (we get audited on it)

Quite. I've bought a car that way, from what I considered to be a reputable dealer (they were), the finance was indicated up-front, they said there would be a letter from the finance house confirming in writing that they no longer had any interest in the car prior to collection - this was easier to accept as I couldn't collect the car any earlier than this would take. True to their word, there was a letter waiting with the car and my own check confirmed all was well. I drove the car home, end of story!

Hope it works out for you, OP.

Glad it all worked out. I like to keep it simpler than that.

[turbobloke]

swisstoni said:

turbobloke said:

Butter Face said:

swisstoni said:

I bid him good-day.

I don't see why you would? We do lots of stocking finance which shows on HPI and HAS to be settled when the car is released (we get audited on it)

Quite. I've bought a car that way, from what I considered to be a reputable dealer (they were), the finance was indicated up-front, they said there would be a letter from the finance house confirming in writing that they no longer had any interest in the car prior to collection - this was easier to accept as I couldn't collect the car any earlier than this would take. True to their word, there was a letter waiting with the car and my own check confirmed all was well. I drove the car home, end of story!

Hope it works out for you, OP.

Glad it all worked out. I like to keep it simpler than that.

Fair enough, but simple approaches can go wrong, e.g. a swap as in this thread, or a 'simple' purchase where the seller doesn't have title to the car but it looks like they do as registered keeper (with no outstanding finance either).

What I did is hardly unusual though, as Butter Face pointed out, and not really that complicated - but clearly we're all free to buy or not buy however we choose.

[Welshbeef]

CAPP0 said:

ModernAndy said:

How long did this call from the finance company last?

I kinda read it that he didn't answer the call, but if he did then it does seem to put a rather different slant on things.

Edited by CAPP0 on Tuesday 15th November 15:19

Very much so - OP is being rather slow on responding to any questions about this call

[anonymous-user]

motoroller said:

How do I prove this? At the moment everyone (seller and buyer) are making me feel like it's my headache and that somehow I should be the one paying off the finance. If this comes down to one persons word against the other then I'm likely to be hit with a large bill, despite not having done any wrong. I've been in this position before with a false / fake personal injury claim against me on car insurance. It's a terrible situation to be in.

It's stressing me out - I'm at work and can't focus.

I had the same, don't worry, either you or the current owner need to fill out the applicable form the finance company should send through saying you bought the car in good faith, no relation to the person who took the finance out, paid appx full market value, dates of ownership etc.

Really it's not your problem, in my case the finance company needed up taking the chap who had the finance to court over unpaid debts, etc.

It took about a week of my time and then all sorted.

[Welshbeef]

Trexthedinosaur said:

I had the same, don't worry, either you or the current owner need to fill out the applicable form the finance company should send through saying you bought the car in good faith, no relation to the person who took the finance out, paid appx full market value, dates of ownership etc.

Really it's not your problem, in my case the finance company needed up taking the chap who had the finance to court over unpaid debts, etc.

It took about a week of my time and then all sorted.

At the moment the poorest chap is the most recent buyer he has no vehicle - OP should count his lucky stars.

[konark]

The good news is that if Barclays are the lender it is straightforward car finance and not one of those log-book loans, which are a world of pain. OP should have acquired good title on purchase and the seller has committed a criminal offence by selling (even if buyer was aware) , not that Plod will care. If OP has good title he has not committed any offence by selling the car.

Barclays will have got the OP's and the subsequent buyer's address and phone number from that place in Swansea that thinks the Data Protection Acts (1988 & 2003) don't apply to them.

OP, don't worry about Plod, they'll do nothing as usual, I'm surprised you've even got them to question the original seller, they usually fob you off with their 'civil matter' mantra. Any legal action will be civil not criminal so Plod won't be involved.

At the end of the day the finance is in the original seller's name, at least he's still around, albeit telling porkies, usually the guy whose name the finance is in has scarpered.

I'd wait a while to see how this pans out before going to the expense of a solicitor. Worst case scenario is you'll have to defend a civil claim from your buyer.

[anonymous-user]

legal beagles.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php...

'Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that the first "innocent purchaser" of the vehicle gets good title.'

so looks like they can repossess from the op's buyer.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Wednesday 16th November 04:59

[Steve H]

motoroller said:

I'm keeping communication with the buyer for now. But they are testing my limits with threats to call the police, giving me this idea of the need for a "chain" of police cases from them to me then from me to the original seller.

I think we should be careful with the difference between civil and criminal stuff here.

If the final buyer wants to get some money back off a seller he would need to sue the OP who would need to join the guy who sold it to him into the case; he can't sue the original seller as he has no contractual relationship with them. Why the police would be advising on civil matters is a mystery (probably just trying to avoid having to do anything themselves) but that's the situation and this assumes that the finance company actually have the right to keep possession of the car.

If there was some element of criminal fraud the latest buyer needs to get the police involved with investigating it and they would interview everyone concerned and determine who has any liability; that's if they were willing to get involved.........


OP, it seems to me that the phone call from the finance company does rather muddy the waters of your knowledge prior to selling the car but your best bet right now is just keep referring your buyer back to Barclays and the original seller and hope that they get something sorted before it goes fully legal. By all means get legal advice in the meantime but getting into any further detailed discussions with any of the parties right now is just going to keep right in the middle of it.

[Dixy]

The Spruce goose said:

legal beagles.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php...

'Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that the first "innocent purchaser" of the vehicle gets good title.'

so looks like they can repossess from the op's buyer.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Wednesday 16th November 04:59

You mean can not repossess.

No matter what, the end buyer has good title. I spent 13 years in the finance industry and repossessed 100s of cars, admittedly a few years ago, Your buyer needs to put all his anger at Barclays, regrettably most village solicitors are pretty clueless but a specialist will rip them to shreds get his costs and compensation for the end buyer. Barclays will fold if he applies the right pressure.

[anonymous-user]

Dixy said:

You mean can not repossess.

nope that is why i quoted the legal beagle bit.

[funkyrobot]

OP - where are you?

Have you done something a bit naughty?

[sealtt]

Sounds like you are getting really stressed out by this, I'd get a solicitor to advise (use the law society to find one), and get some professional answers.

[funkyrobot]

sealtt said:

Sounds like you are getting really stressed out by this, I'd get a solicitor to advise (use the law society to find one), and get some professional answers.

Been said already. OP seems to be in hiding now.

Also, from the info he has drip fed, it looks like he may have not told the whole story.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Dixy said:

The Spruce goose said:

legal beagles.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php...

'Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that the first "innocent purchaser" of the vehicle gets good title.'

so looks like they can repossess from the op's buyer.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Wednesday 16th November 04:59

You mean can not repossess.

No matter what, the end buyer has good title. I spent 13 years in the finance industry and repossessed 100s of cars, admittedly a few years ago, Your buyer needs to put all his anger at Barclays, regrettably most village solicitors are pretty clueless but a specialist will rip them to shreds get his costs and compensation for the end buyer. Barclays will fold if he applies the right pressure.

Agree with Dixy here. The OP has legal title, therefore can pass on that legal title by means of a legal sale, no repossession possible.

[motoroller]

I have been quiet as this has been stressing me out and also as I've been seeking legal advice.

From what I've been told, the buyer is correct about the chain. He needs to pursue me, and I need to pursue original seller. To save any legal fees and hassle on that side, it may be easiest for me to issue a refund to the buyer. This places me at a high risk, but it gives me the peace of mind that there will be no legal dispute against me. I'm then left to pursue Barclays and the original seller.

This also alleviates any case Barclays may have about me being aware of the finance and selling the car in bad faith (even though I didn't - it can't be claimed that I did).