Developer and Solar Feed in Tariff Question

[scoobster999]

Not sure if here or homes and diy section but guess it's more a legal question??

Just bought a new build house which has come installed with solar PV panels on the roof. Going through the contract and there is a clause that ownership and benefits of the said panels will be transferred to us, the purchaser, however our conveyancer has asked about the relevant feed in tariff which has been signed and apparently the developer is going to retain this?

He's willing to sell it to us (not sure how much he wants yet), but I am of a mind that we are paying for their upkeep, will need to replace them at some point in the future (around 20 years I understand), so we should receive the payments? Whilst we will potentially benefit from reduced energy bills any surplus will be paid to the developer which doesn't seem fair?

Not sure if this is the norm or if anyone has had experience in this?

Thanks

Scoob

[kiethton]

So they want a free roofspace lease with no repairing or maintaining obligation.....think I know where I'd tell them to go (or tell them to remove them all together)

[TooMany2cvs]

scoobster999 said:

Just bought a new build house

When you say "bought"... the sale has completed? Contracts have been exchanged? If so, then it's academic. Done deal.

If you haven't actually bought it yet, just had your offer accepted, maybe paid a retainer, then it's all still up for agreement.

scoobster999 said:

which has come installed with solar PV panels on the roof. Going through the contract and there is a clause that ownership and benefits of the said panels will be transferred to us, the purchaser, however our conveyancer has asked about the relevant feed in tariff which has been signed and apparently the developer is going to retain this?

He's willing to sell it to us (not sure how much he wants yet), but I am of a mind that we are paying for their upkeep, will need to replace them at some point in the future (around 20 years I understand), so we should receive the payments? Whilst we will potentially benefit from reduced energy bills any surplus will be paid to the developer which doesn't seem fair?

Doesn't seem very different to the rent-a-roof schemes, apart from ownership of the panels is yours, rather than staying with them.

How much do they want? How do the sums work out? No point in paying another £10k for £5k of return. Equally, £5k more for £10k return seems a no-brainer.

[scoobster999]

We are due to exchange contracts in the coming week or two, our solicitor is firing off enquiries one of which related to the feed in tariff. I am not sure what the returns will be on the units, there are a lot of conflicting figures on the internet so whether it's worth paying to buy it is tricky to determine.

I am not particularly happy to be taking all of the risks in maintaining and eventually replacing them (or the invertor), however its late in the day as our house is sold and we are committed either way! I am hoping the developer won't be an arse and make us pay fortunes. Wasn't sure if this was the norm

[anonymous-user]

So am I correct to think that he is selling the house and panels but expects you to pay extra to receive the feed in tariff?

If so that would be a complete no go from me without a significant discount from him.

[can't remember]

This is set to become more and more of an issue as many installers have offered cheap panels in return for retaining the rights to the feed in payment. Power storage is now much more practical and becoming cheaper.

[anonymous-user]

If you are going to be in the house to use the power when the panels are generating then it has some value. If you are out at work all day i.e. not able to use the power then there is very little value for you if you don't get the FIT payment.

I would consider the FIT to a benefit of solar panels and should be included in the current price.

Worth noting that fitting solar also improves the environmental rating of the house, the FIT payment has reduced so much this can't be the only reason they fitted them.

[Fish]

Right I am a developer and have panels at home..

It was something I considered doing a few years ago but didn't..

It would appear the developer has installed panels on the roof and has either got a lease for the panels or has given them to you in the freehold but I would then expect they have covenants to receive the RHIs and for you to leave their or maintain etc.

Two questions are the panels the actual roof tiles or are they separate panels sat above the tiles.

RHIs last fro 20/25yrs and alot of panels have warrenties for that period, most inverters don't however some did, my inverter has a 20yr warranty..

I suppose I'd need to consider:

You will benefit form free electricity when generating which can be worth quite a bit - What size array is it?
What maintenance am I liable for - If any I'd walk.
Can I easily remove after the term come to an end?
What level are the RHIs, the ones now are hardly worth bothering with as they are so low!
Who owns the panels, you or the developer under a Lease?

[Wombat3]

Its a massive try-on IMO. The panels are not free are they? They are built into the price of the house somewhere.

[Gafferjim]

TooMany2cvs said:

Doesn't seem very different to the rent-a-roof schemes, apart from ownership of the panels is yours, rather than staying with them.

This is just what they are doing, and I suspect that you don't actually own the panels either.

I decided a couple of years ago to have solar panels fitted, I looked into the "Free" panels thing, and it is just what is happening to you, you get the benefit of any solar electricity whilst the sun is out, but you don't get the FiT, that goes to whoever paid for their installation, you also sign to rent out the roof for 25 yrs, possibly giving problems when selling the house.
Due to this, I bought my panels outright, so I get both the solar power when it's produced, and the FiT as well. I paid £5½k for them about 2½ yrs ago, working it out so far, both with the money saved on electricity, along with the FiT, I believe it will be a total of approx 7 yrs to pay back the installation cost, (another 4½ yrs to go)
I also did my homework at the time, checking out the various makes of solar panels, they're not all as good as each other, and there are cheaper 2nds on the market, I went with a small independent firm who had to order in the panels that I wanted.
In retrospect, I only wish that I'd done it a few years earlier when the FiT was much more than it is now.

Edited by Gafferjim on Saturday 19th November 09:14

[herewego]

My guess is the developer hasn't paid for the panels, he's contracted a panel installer to supply them for free on the basis that they get the FIT. Personally I'd ask that the clause saying you get the benefit is honoured in full, i.e. you get ownership, output and FIT or I'd walk away.

[ging84]

These sorts of arrangement have caused problems with people being able to mortgages when they try and sell or remortgage because this arrangement can create a charge on the property. I suspect more awareness around the issue has sorted it out to some extent but it's still something i would be concerned with, because no matter what it's going to add to the complexity of a sale which no doubt will add costs.

I think you probably need to look into the terms more closely, i think it's unlikely you would be taking on financial responsibility to maintain and ultimately replace them, that would basically be a scam, but you might have a responsibility to allow access to maintenance / replacement.

[Red Devil]

Gafferjim said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Doesn't seem very different to the rent-a-roof schemes, apart from ownership of the panels is yours, rather than staying with them.

This is just what they are doing, and I suspect that you don't actually own the panels either.

I decided a couple of years ago to have solar panels fitted, I looked into the "Free" panels thing, and it is just what is happening to you, you get the benefit of any solar electricity whilst the sun is out, but you don't get the FiT, that goes to whoever paid for their installation, you also sign to rent out the roof for 25 yrs, possibly giving problems when selling the house.
Due to this, I bought my panels outright, so I get both the solar power when it's produced, and the FiT as well. I paid £5½k for them about 2½ yrs ago, working it out so far, both with the money saved on electricity, along with the FiT, I believe it will be a total of approx 7 yrs to pay back the installation cost, (another 4½ yrs to go)
I also did my homework at the time, checking out the various makes of solar panels, they're not all as good as each other, and there are cheaper 2nds on the market, I went with a small independent firm who had to order in the panels that I wanted.
In retrospect, I only wish that I'd done it a few years earlier when the FiT was much more than it is now.

Edited by Gafferjim on Saturday 19th November 09:14

^^This^^

My ex got a job as a salesperson for a distinctly dodgy solar energy company. When I found out what their pitch was I hit the roof (excuse the pun).
I was relieved when she quit after 6 months because it was making me question her ethics. I wondered how she could sleep at night tbh.

[MJG280]

To obtain the FIT payment someone has to read the meter and supply the figures to the Energy Company. So access rights will be required not only to the panels and the inverter as and when required but also to the meter every quarter.

[scoobster999]

I have forwarded the question to my conveyancing company and hopefully they might throw some light on what the situation is. I am not of a mind to proceed with the purchase if the developer is not going to relinquish the FIT. If the property is harder, more expensive to sell as a result then the risk outweighs the benefit and if I can then I will remove the panels, if not then I guess I will withdraw. We aren't in much during the day so won't benefit from the supply so having someone else profiting while I take the risk isn't acceptable.

Thanks for all the comments, very helpful as always.

Scoob

[Rangeroverover]

New builds now seem to have to install solar, I would run a mile from this, give them a choice

1) I will accept the panels and all income associated with them
or
2) Take the panels away as I do not want them

They will have no choice, I suspect its just the developer being greedy, give the local building control dept a call and ask them if solar is part of the building regs, if it is the tell the developer you will only proceed if you have the full benefit from the panels

[Biker 1]

Some planning permissions include solar panels in the planning conditions, so taking them down may contravene the permission. Not sure if there is a time limit(??)
From my experience, solar PV or thermal are totally overrated in terms of payback. There is NO WAY the equipment will work for 25 years without maintenance/major component replacement. Will be interesting to do an audit on a system in 20-odd years, assuming it hasn't been scrapped by then.

[Cerbhd]

I'd be inclined to ask him how much he is going to charge for you to receive the FIT. If he takes the piss, counter-offer what you think is reasonable and mention that if he doesn't accept then you might accidentally turn off the isolator by the fuseboard every time you go out on a nice hot sunny day!

[herewego]

Is the power generated actually metered, I had a feeling it was just assumed based on the panel design output?

[Foliage]

Don't allow their to be any surplus, at your earliest convenience have a cells put in to store the energy for your later use.