Adult threatening a child with violence

[singlecoil]

PhillipM said:

Also whilst I'm here, those suggesting that slapping a childs legs teaches them violence is okay - does that mean all these who are having their toys taken away are growing up as thieves?

Back of the net!

[_dobbo_]

singlecoil said:

PhillipM said:

Also whilst I'm here, those suggesting that slapping a childs legs teaches them violence is okay - does that mean all these who are having their toys taken away are growing up as thieves?

Back of the net!

I don't have a strong opinion either way. I was just questioning the use of "mental trauma" in this context.

If you spend any time around young children you'll know they exist in a permanent state of mental trauma.

Because they have to stay in. Or go out. Or put on a coat. Or take off a coat. Or go to bed. Or get up. Or eat food. Or stop eating food. Or go to nursery. Or not go to nursery. And so on.

I don't hit my kids but I do want them to learn that actions have consequences. I don't want them to grow up thinking that consequence is a smack from Dad. That's my personal choice.

However I don't equate removal of a toy or favoured item with being hit, but that's just my opinion.

[PhillipM]

They're also always falling over, grazing knees, bumping heads, bruising elbows. Physical trauma, if you prefer.

[RobinOakapple]

_dobbo_ said:

However I don't equate removal of a toy or favoured item with being hit, but that's just my opinion.

It makes for a better discussion if people put forward the reasons why they hold their opinions.


For my part I see what the recent posters have been getting at, they are questioning why one form of imposing your will on someone weaker than you is ok, but another is not. It's a good question and deserves a proper answer if anyone has one.

[WinstonWolf]

swerni said:

Riley Blue said:

When I was younger than 11 I was given a clout by the father of a boy I'd pushed off his bike. My dad had no sympathy whatsoever and told me I deserved it. Another time my grandfather belted my arse for destroying part of his flower garden. Punishment for childhood misdemeanours was often done and dusted, not just by parents, in no time in those days, no questions asked.

We had this conversation yesterday.
If you got slippered, canned or some other punishment from the school, the first question from your parents would be " well what did you do wrong" now days they just jump to the defence of the little sts

Pfft, one of our teachers used to deliver a straight finger jab to the solarplexus, that soon sorted out any rambunctiousness...

[Devil2575]

_dobbo_ said:

singlecoil said:

PhillipM said:

Also whilst I'm here, those suggesting that slapping a childs legs teaches them violence is okay - does that mean all these who are having their toys taken away are growing up as thieves?

Back of the net!

I don't have a strong opinion either way. I was just questioning the use of "mental trauma" in this context.

If you spend any time around young children you'll know they exist in a permanent state of mental trauma.

Because they have to stay in. Or go out. Or put on a coat. Or take off a coat. Or go to bed. Or get up. Or eat food. Or stop eating food. Or go to nursery. Or not go to nursery. And so on.

I don't hit my kids but I do want them to learn that actions have consequences. I don't want them to grow up thinking that consequence is a smack from Dad. That's my personal choice.

However I don't equate removal of a toy or favoured item with being hit, but that's just my opinion.

Pretty much sums up my opinion on smacking children.

The other aspect is that as they get older what do you do? ramp up the force until you give your 15 year old a punch in the face?

There comes a point where, unless your a sadist, you will switch to other forms of punishment anyway so why not start that way?

[woodyTVR]

WinstonWolf said:

swerni said:

Riley Blue said:

When I was younger than 11 I was given a clout by the father of a boy I'd pushed off his bike. My dad had no sympathy whatsoever and told me I deserved it. Another time my grandfather belted my arse for destroying part of his flower garden. Punishment for childhood misdemeanours was often done and dusted, not just by parents, in no time in those days, no questions asked.

We had this conversation yesterday.
If you got slippered, canned or some other punishment from the school, the first question from your parents would be " well what did you do wrong" now days they just jump to the defence of the little sts

Pfft, one of our teachers used to deliver a straight finger jab to the solarplexus, that soon sorted out any rambunctiousness...

We had one at middle school that used to lift you off your chair by your sideburns. I remember a local 18 year old coming back to the school one day and dragging him outside by his hair (what little he had) and giving him a right kicking. Rumour has it his parents used to take his Gameboy off him when he didn't do his homework so he was obviously mentally screwed from that!

[WinstonWolf]

woodyTVR said:

WinstonWolf said:

swerni said:

Riley Blue said:

When I was younger than 11 I was given a clout by the father of a boy I'd pushed off his bike. My dad had no sympathy whatsoever and told me I deserved it. Another time my grandfather belted my arse for destroying part of his flower garden. Punishment for childhood misdemeanours was often done and dusted, not just by parents, in no time in those days, no questions asked.

We had this conversation yesterday.
If you got slippered, canned or some other punishment from the school, the first question from your parents would be " well what did you do wrong" now days they just jump to the defence of the little sts

Pfft, one of our teachers used to deliver a straight finger jab to the solarplexus, that soon sorted out any rambunctiousness...

We had one at middle school that used to lift you off your chair by your sideburns. I remember a local 18 year old coming back to the school one day and dragging him outside by his hair (what little he had) and giving him a right kicking. Rumour has it his parents used to take his Gameboy off him when he didn't do his homework so he was obviously mentally screwed from that!

We had another who would life you by your tie. Again, it slowed you right down...

[Devil2575]

RobinOakapple said:

It makes for a better discussion if people put forward the reasons why they hold their opinions.
For my part I see what the recent posters have been getting at, they are questioning why one form of imposing your will on someone weaker than you is ok, but another is not. It's a good question and deserves a proper answer if anyone has one.

Because I don't want to hit my children.

I don't see that violence is ever an answer to a problem within a family in a civillised society.

There may be very infrequent instances outside of the family where violence is required as self defence but I don't see it has a place as a punishment.

[Devil2575]

woodyTVR said:

WinstonWolf said:

swerni said:

Riley Blue said:

When I was younger than 11 I was given a clout by the father of a boy I'd pushed off his bike. My dad had no sympathy whatsoever and told me I deserved it. Another time my grandfather belted my arse for destroying part of his flower garden. Punishment for childhood misdemeanours was often done and dusted, not just by parents, in no time in those days, no questions asked.

We had this conversation yesterday.
If you got slippered, canned or some other punishment from the school, the first question from your parents would be " well what did you do wrong" now days they just jump to the defence of the little sts

Pfft, one of our teachers used to deliver a straight finger jab to the solarplexus, that soon sorted out any rambunctiousness...

We had one at middle school that used to lift you off your chair by your sideburns. I remember a local 18 year old coming back to the school one day and dragging him outside by his hair (what little he had) and giving him a right kicking. Rumour has it his parents used to take his Gameboy off him when he didn't do his homework so he was obviously mentally screwed from that!

My wife's uncle went to a very strict cathlolic school where beatings were common place. When he was big enough he fought back and threw a particularly sadistic teacher down the stairs.

[RobinOakapple]

Devil2575 said:

RobinOakapple said:

It makes for a better discussion if people put forward the reasons why they hold their opinions.
For my part I see what the recent posters have been getting at, they are questioning why one form of imposing your will on someone weaker than you is ok, but another is not. It's a good question and deserves a proper answer if anyone has one.

Because I don't want to hit my children.

I don't see that violence is ever an answer to a problem within a family in a civillised society.

There may be very infrequent instances outside of the family where violence is required as self defence but I don't see it has a place as a punishment.

The actual question, which you didn't answer, is why one form of imposing your will on someone weaker than you is ok, but another is not.

You saying you don't want to hit your children is ok as an answer only if you don't impose any other sanctions on them either.

[Devil2575]

RobinOakapple said:

Devil2575 said:

RobinOakapple said:

It makes for a better discussion if people put forward the reasons why they hold their opinions.
For my part I see what the recent posters have been getting at, they are questioning why one form of imposing your will on someone weaker than you is ok, but another is not. It's a good question and deserves a proper answer if anyone has one.

Because I don't want to hit my children.

I don't see that violence is ever an answer to a problem within a family in a civillised society.

There may be very infrequent instances outside of the family where violence is required as self defence but I don't see it has a place as a punishment.

The actual question, which you didn't answer, is why one form of imposing your will on someone weaker than you is ok, but another is not.

You saying you don't want to hit your children is ok as an answer only if you don't impose any other sanctions on them either.

Because I don't see removal of toys or loss of treats as equivalent to smacking.

Why in the punishment for crimes do the courts not impose physical punishments?

After a while a single smack isn't going to cut it and you're going to have to ramp it up. Where do you go when the child is immune/used to a smack? Removal of a toy or missing out on a treat is something that will work for a lot longer.

Besides, neither are really the best way to get children to behave. When I was at school the teachers that got the best behaviour from the class where not the ones who screamed, shouted and threatened violence, they were the ones who had our respect. You don't get respect by hitting people.

I prefer to reward good behaviour than punish bad. So for being good they get something, rather than having something taken away for being bad.

[cpjitservices]

I can honestly say that it depends on the situation as to whether a child would deserve 'a smacked bottom', having said that as a lad I was brayed... to the point were I couldn't walk, go to bed, breathe, eat - I had some good hidings from my old boy, it taught me nothing except how to duck when I saw it coming.

A grown man threatening a child, he's obviously really big and hard and I feel sorry for his children if he has any. Straight to the polce no questions asked. I wouldn't even involve the school if it has happened out side of the school gates.

Edited by cpjitservices on Monday 28th November 15:48

Edited by cpjitservices on Monday 28th November 15:51

[nickwilcock]

Years ago a friend was doing some teaching practice in rather an unpleasant school in some wretched inner city. His normal class was very noisy, but one little $hit was always stirring it up. So eventually my friend gave him what was then termed 'a clip round the ear'...

A couple of days later, father turns up to remonstrate. "Come with me", said my friend and took him to the classroom which, as usual, was utter mayhem. "WTF do you think you're doing??!!", yelled the father at his brat, then went out with my friend. "I'm sorry to have wasted your time", apologised the father, continuing "Here's a drink for you" - and gave him half-a-crown. "And he'll be getting more than just a clip round the ear when he gets home", said the father as he left....

[_dobbo_]

RobinOakapple said:

_dobbo_ said:

However I don't equate removal of a toy or favoured item with being hit, but that's just my opinion.

It makes for a better discussion if people put forward the reasons why they hold their opinions.

Fair point. It's my opinion that once you're hitting a kid then you've already lost that particular battle. Morally and intellectually.

I'd rather use words to educate my children on the consequences of their action than violence.

If I'm whacking them, what next? My feeling is I'd have nowhere else to go, you can't escalate from there except to hitting them harder. I'm smarter than they are and I have much much less to lose in any given interaction as long as I keep my cool.

Annoying little bds that they often are, I've got many many ways of imposing discipline that don't leave a red mark on their legs and I will continue to prefer all of them regardless of how successful a little smack might be for others.

[Escapegoat]

nickwilcock said:

Years ago ... gave him half-a-crown.

Half a century.

Back when the World Cup was still ours, women were 'asking for it' if they wore short skirts, and men were jailed for sleeping with each other.

[Red Devil]

Some folk would trade all the rest for the first one to still be true...

[solo2]

To follow-up this thread, child in question received a text message apology from the adult admitting his mistake.

I'm still not happy that it happened in the first place and feel he was backed into a corner to which his only option was an apology rather than actually freely giving it but the matter is now concluded.

[Skyrat]

I'm curious, if all those people advocating the assault of children for minor infractions, go around punching other adults because they do something that displeases them? Or would that be unacceptable? Hmmm. Why then is it ok to hit your child?

I've (lightly) smacked my wee girl's bum only a few times, and I've never felt like less of a man in my life afterwards. Seeing my child cry and knowing it's because I've hit her is just horrible. I'll never do it again.

[Rovinghawk]

Skyrat said:

I've (lightly) smacked my wee girl's bum only a few times, and I've never felt like less of a man in my life afterwards. Seeing my child cry and knowing it's because I've hit her is just horrible. I'll never do it again.

You did it from perceived necessity rather than anger. I see that as the right reason.

No need to feel guilty.