PCN Breach of Bus Lane

[Jazzer]

Hi folks,

I need a wee bit of help.

My other half received a notice for breaching a bus lane.

The photo shows her car with nearside wheels on the thick, white dividing line.

Her car did not straddle this line.

Is this a breach, or is it worthy of appeal?

Interestingly, the photo shows a car behind hers, clearly straddling the line.

What do you think?

Cheers

[pcvdriver]

Jazzer said:

Hi folks,

I need a wee bit of help.

My other half received a notice for breaching a bus lane.

The photo shows her car with nearside wheels on the thick, white dividing line.

Her car did not straddle this line.

Is this a breach, or is it worthy of appeal?

Interestingly, the photo shows a car behind hers, clearly straddling the line.

What do you think?

Cheers

Seeing the photo would help....

[Jazzer]

I thought my description was clear enough to enable you to pass comment.

[cmaguire]

Jazzer said:

I thought my description was clear enough to enable you to pass comment.

I'd just appeal it using their paperwork which you should have, selecting 'the offence did not occur' from the options. Being on the line is not the same as crossing the line would be my explanation for no offence.

[herewego]

Are you sure it's the only photo? Maybe there's one for the bus lane offence and one for the reg number.

[anonymous-user]

All I can find on white lines is that you shouldn't straddle them or crosse them, the latter presumably implying being fully over them. I wouldn't think that just having a wheel touching would be an offence.

Depends whether they play tennis or squash I guess!

[Jazzer]

Thank you for the replies.

I believe from everything I can see that both nearside wheels need to straddle the line for an offence to occur.

The only photo supplied does not show this to be the case, and so she will appeal on this basis.

[Red Devil]

I'm willing to bet that the LA will reject her representations.
It's normally the standard first response MO that all of them adopt.
She may need to be prepared for it to go before an independent adjudicator.

If a single still photo is all the LA has she may have a chance.
Don't bet on this being the case though.
The camera will have tracked her for the operator to get a hard on.

Why do you think the car behind is of interest in any way?
The actions of its driver have nothing whatsoever to do with the allegation against her.

Btw, why do you believe both n/s wheels need to have crossed the line?

[Jazzer]

Red Devil said:

I'm willing to bet that the LA will reject her representations.
It's normally the standard first response MO that all of them adopt.
She may need to be prepared for it to go before an independent adjudicator.

If a single still photo is all the LA has she may have a chance.
Don't bet on this being the case though.
The camera will have tracked her for the operator to get a hard on.

Why do you think the car behind is of interest in any way?
The actions of its driver have nothing whatsoever to do with the allegation against her.

Btw, why do you believe both n/s wheels need to have crossed the line?

The only car shown straddling the white line is the one behind hers.
The bit about two wheels straddling is something I've seen mentioned elsewhere, but I stand to be corrected if wrong.
I'm not sure, hence this post.

[anonymous-user]

Jazzer said:

Red Devil said:

I'm willing to bet that the LA will reject her representations.
It's normally the standard first response MO that all of them adopt.
She may need to be prepared for it to go before an independent adjudicator.

If a single still photo is all the LA has she may have a chance.
Don't bet on this being the case though.
The camera will have tracked her for the operator to get a hard on.

Why do you think the car behind is of interest in any way?
The actions of its driver have nothing whatsoever to do with the allegation against her.

Btw, why do you believe both n/s wheels need to have crossed the line?

The only car shown straddling the white line is the one behind hers.
The bit about two wheels straddling is something I've seen mentioned elsewhere, but I stand to be corrected if wrong.
I'm not sure, hence this post.

Straddling and crossing are often mentioned by advisory/training sites etc in connection with the HC and solid lines. Touching isn't ever, as far as I can see.

[cmaguire]

The sad thing is how desperate the Local Authorities are to hassle members of the public for fines at every opportunity.
This country has a fine culture in operation that is utterly oppressive.

[Red Devil]

cmaguire said:

The sad thing is how desperate the Local Authorities are to hassle members of the public for fines at every opportunity.
This country has a fine culture in operation that is utterly oppressive.

Hardly surprising when local authorities are having their central government funding slashed at every opportunity.
Anything that can rake in extra dosh is going to be wrung out to the max. Even the pips have stopped squeaking.

I guess your world view depends on whether you're a disciple of Thomas Hobbes or John Locke - http://jim.com/hobbes.htm -

[anonymous-user]

Red Devil said:

cmaguire said:

The sad thing is how desperate the Local Authorities are to hassle members of the public for fines at every opportunity.
This country has a fine culture in operation that is utterly oppressive.

Hardly surprising when local authorities are having their central government funding slashed at every opportunity.
Anything that can rake in extra dosh is going to be wrung out to the max. Even the pips have stopped squeaking.

I guess your world view depends on whether you're a disciple of Thomas Hobbes or John Locke - http://jim.com/hobbes.htm -

Hardly surprising when local authorities need to get every penny they can because of their widespread innefficiency and waste IMO. But that's another argument!

[Red Devil]

http://kingsreview.co.uk/articles/the-allure-of-re... -

[herewego]

cmaguire said:

The sad thing is how desperate the Local Authorities are to hassle members of the public for fines at every opportunity.
This country has a fine culture in operation that is utterly oppressive.

Do you think they should not enforce regulations? Just let people do whatever they want?

[cmaguire]

herewego said:

Do you think they should not enforce regulations? Just let people do whatever they want?

They should certainly curb their enthusiasm, as they appear to have lost sight of the original purpose of the game (to keep things flowing by dealing with those upsetting the rhythm) because they have become blinded by the money (or the power).

And there are not just two options, one of which is 'Just let people do whatever they want', and to suggest that is their other choice is daft.

[herewego]

cmaguire said:

herewego said:

Do you think they should not enforce regulations? Just let people do whatever they want?

They should certainly curb their enthusiasm, as they appear to have lost sight of the original purpose of the game (to keep things flowing by dealing with those upsetting the rhythm) because they have become blinded by the money (or the power).

And there are not just two options, one of which is 'Just let people do whatever they want', and to suggest that is their other choice is daft.

Perhaps if you hadn't described fines as "utterly oppressive" then I wouldn't have gone to the opposite extreme. It's obvious we need regulations and they need to be adhered to. What punishment would you suggest?

[cmaguire]

herewego said:

Perhaps if you hadn't described fines as "utterly oppressive" then I wouldn't have gone to the opposite extreme. It's obvious we need regulations and they need to be adhered to. What punishment would you suggest?

The punishments are totally out of proportion to the 'crime' (e.g. a week's pension for entering a bus lane or forgetting to pay the congestion charge before the deadline) before even considering whether a punishment should be pursued in the first case as per the OP here.

Bus lane? £30 would be more like it. Levied when appropriate rather than whenever they think they can bully it out of someone.

[herewego]

cmaguire said:

herewego said:

Perhaps if you hadn't described fines as "utterly oppressive" then I wouldn't have gone to the opposite extreme. It's obvious we need regulations and they need to be adhered to. What punishment would you suggest?

The punishments are totally out of proportion to the 'crime' (e.g. a week's pension for entering a bus lane or forgetting to pay the congestion charge before the deadline) before even considering whether a punishment should be pursued in the first case as per the OP here.

Bus lane? £30 would be more like it. Levied when appropriate rather than whenever they think they can bully it out of someone.

We don't know where the OP is. If he's in Manchester then £30 is exactly what the charge is according to this site:
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/100011/roads_par...

Also we don't know the situation for the OPs wife until she appeals the charge and gets more information.

[cmaguire]

herewego said:

We don't know where the OP is. If he's in Manchester then £30 is exactly what the charge is according to this site:
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/100011/roads_par...

Also we don't know the situation for the OPs wife until she appeals the charge and gets more information.

Even if he is in Manchester it isn't £30 though is it?
It's £30/60/90. That 'pay now or else' crap is unethical state sponsored bullying.
Move him to London and he gets screwed even worse.